Bad Move?
 

I UTG in a home tourney. We start out with 2 tables of 6 getting 5k in chips. The blinds at this moment were 60/120 and I get j's and I just call the BB. The player to my left raises to 300 and he is the type that doesn't raise with qq-aa from early in hopes he can get in a re-raise PF. When it gets back to me only the clueless BB has called the raise and i move all-in for my 5500 and I just knew that my opps were going to fold and the original raiser did fold but the BB woke up with aces. I didn't want to take the flop at the time with jacks and was content to take the 800 or so that was already in the pot. Was this a bad move on my part or just unlucky that someone had a better hand. Again, I really felt sure that they were both going to fold. BTW the blinds start at 20/40 and go up every 20 minutes.

Re: Bad Move?
 

I think you misplayed it. Welcome to the club. Jacks are a bitch.

In a typical home tournament, I want to raise enough to drive out the "Any ace" players.. I raise between 3 and 5x ... this probably warrants a 4x because you have a mid-pair and any overcard will scare you with loosies in the pot... OOP with JJ is a real PITA when overcards come. I assume the BB would have called your raise instead of reraising. Hopefully you could figure it out postflop. You had 45 BB, there's no reason to get allin preflop here.

edit: good question, btw... it's a great example of a small mistake (limping UTG) leading to a huge mistake (trying to put sort of a squeeze play on a "clueless" player)

Re: Bad Move?
 

You definitely overbet, and just because you thought they were going to fold doesn't make the play correct. You plain and simple have too many chips to make this play correct.

Jacks are definitely a bitch,

JMB

Re: Bad Move?
 

thanks for reply guys and i feel the same way. just wanted to know if the outcome made me feel that way. i appreciate it.

Re: Bad Move?
 

You should NEVER re-raise with JJ pre-flop (unless shortstacked). You want to see a flop and make sure no overs come. If they do, good for you, you're done. Otherwise you still have to play very cautiously. Many players over value small pocket pairs (Jacks included). They just don't hold up that well.

The only time i'm comfortable moving in with jacks is when I flop a set. Maybe a little comfortable if on the river and there's still no overs and betting has been small.

Re: Bad Move?
 

You might want to open with JJ here. With such a big stack in relation to the blinds, you can pitch the hand if someone comes over the top behind you. I raise it to 350-450 here. Open limping UTG is almost always either the sign of a monster or a hand that someone really doesn't want to play in the position they are in...

Re: Bad Move?
 

how long did your home tourney last w/that chip start and blind levels?

Re: Bad Move?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I UTG in a home tourney. We start out with 2 tables of 6 getting 5k in chips. The blinds at this moment were 60/120 and I get j's and I just call the BB. The player to my left raises to 300 and he is the type that doesn't raise with qq-aa from early in hopes he can get in a re-raise PF. When it gets back to me only the clueless BB has called the raise and i move all-in for my 5500 and I just knew that my opps were going to fold and the original raiser did fold but the BB woke up with aces. I didn't want to take the flop at the time with jacks and was content to take the 800 or so that was already in the pot. Was this a bad move on my part or just unlucky that someone had a better hand. Again, I really felt sure that they were both going to fold. BTW the blinds start at 20/40 and go up every 20 minutes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Open limping is a huge mistake here. With 45 BB's you can raise and bet on the flop and fold to aggression and still be in good shape. And by open limping you let all kinds of weak aces, kings, and queens get in cheap and making post flop play that much more difficult unless you flop a set.

If you really want to limp re-raise you really don't want to go all in. Although I'm in favor of trusting your read, I'm not going to run through the math to figure out how often you have to be right for it to be plus ev. But I'm just not a big fan of risking 45 BB's to win 6.5 BB's. If you're ahead you have a good chance of picking up the pot with smaller bets, and only a hand that has you beat is going to call you, and to those hands you are a huge dog.

Jacks are really only a bitch if you have a moderate stack where losing a moderate sized pot is going to make you a short stack. To a healthy stack like yours, or a short stack, jacks are fine.


--Zetack

Re: Bad Move?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You should NEVER re-raise with JJ pre-flop (unless shortstacked).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with that. There are definitely situations where reraises with JJ and even worse hands is the correct play in my book.

Re: Bad Move?
 

I think the last two are playing HU right now ...