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-   -   Curtains: pick off a PVS? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=408098)

45suited 12-31-2005 02:42 AM

Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
Doesn't a PVS type move by BB seem highly likely here? Any temptation to call (over-push) because of this, plus the overlay?


PartyPoker, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t2291)
UTG+1 (t1032)
MP1 (t1975)
MP2 (t1407)
Hero (t720)
Button (t997)
SB (t1003)
BB (t575)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, UTG+1 calls t50, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, Hero calls t50, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, SB calls t25, <font color="red">BB t525 (All-in)</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">Hero folds</font>, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>

curtains 12-31-2005 02:48 AM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
ahh...yea pretty weird hand by me.

citanul 12-31-2005 02:48 AM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
i overpush here frequently, when i limp.

c

curtains 12-31-2005 02:53 AM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 

btw I think simply moving allin preflop is quite reasonable also. Folding to the allin seems pretty bad to me. Who was the player btw?

45suited 12-31-2005 02:55 AM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
[ QUOTE ]

btw I think simply moving allin preflop is quite reasonable also. Folding to the allin seems pretty bad to me. Who was the player btw?

[/ QUOTE ]

doubleAattak

GtrHtr 12-31-2005 03:20 AM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
[ QUOTE ]

btw I think simply moving allin preflop is quite reasonable also. Folding to the allin seems pretty bad to me. Who was the player btw?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very interesting to me. I should say that I have never limped a hand in level 3. I think I can learn a few things here. If you are adding anyone to you list for HH's, please include me.

Assuming a push as an alternative, how do you view the bet by villain?

AA suited 12-31-2005 11:24 AM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't a PVS type move by BB seem highly likely here? Any temptation to call (over-push) because of this, plus the overlay?


PartyPoker, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t2291)
UTG+1 (t1032)
MP1 (t1975)
MP2 (t1407)
Hero (t720)
Button (t997)
SB (t1003)
BB (t575)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, UTG+1 calls t50, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, Hero calls t50, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, SB calls t25, <font color="red">BB t525 (All-in)</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">Hero folds</font>, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not raise preflop w/Ajs?

curtains 12-31-2005 12:41 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

btw I think simply moving allin preflop is quite reasonable also. Folding to the allin seems pretty bad to me. Who was the player btw?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very interesting to me. I should say that I have never limped a hand in level 3. I think I can learn a few things here. If you are adding anyone to you list for HH's, please include me.

Assuming a push as an alternative, how do you view the bet by villain?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have almost never open limped a hand in lvl 3 but do limp behind sometimes.

12-31-2005 01:20 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
I routinely fold here but then I play 55's.

What's a PVS type move?

kitaristi0 12-31-2005 01:22 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
[ QUOTE ]
PVS: Forum jargon named after poster “Phil Van Sexton”: a play in which a player attempts to steal the dead chips in a pot caused by limping or a raise and a few callers all believed to be weak. Usually this is done when the dead chips in the pot are a significant percentage of the player’s stack, and is only really a PVS when done with junk cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Phil Van Sexton 12-31-2005 02:17 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PVS: Forum jargon named after poster “Phil Van Sexton”: a play in which a player attempts to steal the dead chips in a pot caused by limping or a raise and a few callers all believed to be weak. Usually this is done when the dead chips in the pot are a significant percentage of the player’s stack, and is only really a PVS when done with junk cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I'll never live that one down.

Anyway, I would've pushed here with AJs, 780 chips, and no reads. I don't think I'd limp with less than 900.

12-31-2005 02:20 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
Ty.

I love this PVS play though I usually have samo kind of a hand when I do it so maybe it doesn't qualify as a pure PVS play. Usually it's something like blinds 50-100, 3 limpers to me in the BB and I go allin with 66. It works rather well.

45suited 12-31-2005 02:23 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
Say you limped like Curtains did. You would have then called the push, correct?

BTW, thank you for your old level 3 and 4 posts. When I read them, it was like someone turned the SNG light on for me.

microbet 12-31-2005 02:26 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
But when you overpush your limp, do you call yourself?

Phil Van Sexton 12-31-2005 02:37 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Say you limped like Curtains did. You would have then called the push, correct?

BTW, thank you for your old level 3 and 4 posts. When I read them, it was like someone turned the SNG light on for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'd likely call, but I prefer pushing to begin with to avoid racing with 66.

citanul 12-31-2005 02:41 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
happy new year pvs, glad to know you're still alive.

c

Phil Van Sexton 12-31-2005 03:05 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Ty.

I love this PVS play though I usually have samo kind of a hand when I do it so maybe it doesn't qualify as a pure PVS play. Usually it's something like blinds 50-100, 3 limpers to me in the BB and I go allin with 66. It works rather well.

[/ QUOTE ]

If curtains were awake, he'd probably point out that a "true PVS" isn't necessarily a profitable play. I made that post about owning limpers in the 30s from the BB when I have a small stack. After that, things got a bit carried away.

If Curtains and another player limped in front me in a 215, pushing with junk is "true", but awful. On the othe hand, if the BB had 66, pushing would be a no-brainer.

Dr_Jeckyl_00 12-31-2005 03:10 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
Would folding be terrible?

citanul 12-31-2005 03:13 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
after limping? i think folding would be pretty bad, but what do i know.

c

Dr_Jeckyl_00 12-31-2005 03:15 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
[ QUOTE ]
after limping? i think folding would be pretty bad, but what do i know.

c

[/ QUOTE ]

But isn't that why you limp... to see a cheap flop, and easily let go of a hand...?

45suited 12-31-2005 03:18 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Would folding be terrible?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have overpushed because it's too likely, given the BB's stack, the stack sizes of the other players (giving him reason to believe that he had good FE), and the amount of money in the pot that BB has a hand that you either are ahead of are racing with (PP's 10 and below) while having lots of overlay in the pot. Given this exact scenario, it could just be a true PVS. I'd overpush here.

Actually, as has already been said by others, I'd probably just push in the first place after the limper.

Dr_Jeckyl_00 12-31-2005 03:30 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
ok, so best to push 1st b/c AJs is pretty strong and the t125 is almost 20% of your stack and very valuable. Given that OP limped, over pushing villain's all-in is correct b/c he is likely trying to steal w/ a mediocre hand since he is short, and you're getting 1.5:1 odds which is good incase you're racing against a smaller PP, and if you're ahead, then the dead money is gold. Did I miss anything?

12-31-2005 05:17 PM

Re: Curtains: pick off a PVS?
 
Yeah BB vs. having others to act behind is a big factor, so as always is whether the game is 33, 55, 215 ...

This post just caught my eye because I have bought quite a few pots with this move lately and had the thought that maybe I should be doing this with total trash sometimes. If they fold anyway it makes no difference right? This is from recent play in the 55's.

That said, of course they don't always all fold so pulling this with trash is dangerous and the move should come with a warning on the label - don't try this at home kids.


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