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-   -   Do I need to pay this off?? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=407575)

banditdad 12-31-2005 07:43 PM

Re: Do I need to pay this off?? And the reasons for checking Are???
 
As far as I can tell the post that started this whole broohaha was [ QUOTE ]
And you didn't bet out on the flop because? You needed to narrow the field and gain info on the flop. Bet it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now instead of getting a reason not to bet I was met with a plethora of responses about how this is a 100% no brainer check, I am just a novice player, I am a tool, I should piss off, etc. And of course I overreacted to it and I apologize for that.

Ok. Let's assume for the moment that all of you who would check the flop are correct. Why? I gave my reasons why I thought a flop bet was correct what are your reasons for thinking that a check is correct? My play may be wrong. This is poker not rocket science and I'm a recreational player not a pro so I very well could be wrong. But I need more of a reason than just because we say so.

banditdad 12-31-2005 07:45 PM

Re: Do I need to pay this off?? I\'m confused
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
banditdad strongly disagreed with my idea that checking-through on the river would be bad

[/ QUOTE ]


Re-read this post because I think my word-order might have tripped you up a bit.

I am saying that my idea was 'checking through on the river would be bad' and that you 'strongly disagreed with my idea'.

[/ QUOTE ]

My mistake. I misread your post. And while I may not agree you at least give reasons for making the river bet.

Entity 12-31-2005 07:47 PM

Re: Do I need to pay this off??
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
openlimping OTB more in 3-handed games, coldcalling from the SB, etc.,

[/ QUOTE ]


you're a mad-man.
I like this kind of experimentation.

Probably confuses the hell out of fellow 2+2'ers who just see you 'playing wrong'.

I asked a few weeks ago about cold-calling in the SB with certain hands against a certain range of opponents and naturally got the conventional 2+2 wisdom that I should be 3-betting it of course.
Has certain meta-game implications to really throw off aware opponents.

I still think this is likely correct (because people smarter than me have made very convincing arguments)...perhaps even 100% of the time...but I'm not entirely convinced about that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, though your sample size will always be small it forces you to think about situations that are different, hand ranges and respective hand values, extracting value from different types of players, etc.

My next experiment is going to be coldcalling EP raisers in various games with strong starting hands (and eventually with hands like JTs T9s etc.). I know the conventional logic since I've argued it many many times, but it makes the game so much more in depth and works on your game from so many angles when you actually try to do something different.

Rob

LoaferGee12 12-31-2005 07:48 PM

Re: Do I need to pay this off??
 
[ QUOTE ]

Ok. Let's assume for the moment that all of you who would check the flop are correct. Why? I gave my reasons why I thought a flop bet was correct what are your reasons for thinking that a check is correct? My play may be wrong. This is poker not rocket science and I'm a recreational player not a pro so I very well could be wrong. But I need more of a reason than just because we say so.

[/ QUOTE ]




[ QUOTE ]
"I'm sorry but I don't give free cards to 3 other players on the flop with a board like this one. And neither should you."

You're not giving a free card, you're taking one. The continuation bet takes this pot down on the flop just about never. You more than likely do not have the best hand, equity-wise, at the moment. You need to improve to win. It is checked to you. Why on earth would betting be superior to taking the free card here?

[/ QUOTE ]

This was a post from earlier on. To add on to this, you will get check-raised here often and you'll have to fold to that check-raise, when you would've had a chance to improve as you did in this hand if you had just checked.

MicroBob 12-31-2005 08:03 PM

Re: Do I need to pay this off??
 
there have been many posts throughout this thread explaining the logic behind checking through on the flop.

Basically, you want to be taking a free card (and not afraid of 'giving' one). There has actually been some reasonable depth describing why you would want to do this.

I don't see how one could say that everybody else in this whole thread is just saying 'because we say so' regarding the flop-check because there has been much said to back up that logic.


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