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-   -   Phil Gordon's "Fish N Chip" Sandwich (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=407365)

Bigdaddydvo 12-29-2005 09:01 PM

Phil Gordon\'s \"Fish N Chip\" Sandwich
 
I think I just pulled off a textbook application of the play. For those unfamiliar, it occurs when a player is relatively shortstacked. If an player in EP raises and draws several callers, you move all in with a marginal hand hoping the initial raiser will reraise to isolate, thus getting the pot heads up with great equity. I just tried in the Stars $10 rebuy, and got the precise scenerio I wanted (BTW I was less than 10BBs here, M probably around 5)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1600 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button (t7146)
SB (t46860)
Hero (t13036)
UTG (t28665)
UTG+1 (t22071)
MP1 (t32627)
MP2 (t45990)
MP3 (t35557)
CO (t31143)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t5000</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls t5000, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls t4200, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t12961</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t28590</font>, MP3 folds, SB folds.

Flop: (t51276) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Turn: (t51276) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: (t51276) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t51276

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has 6h 7h (one pair, fours).
UTG has Ks As (one pair, fours).
Outcome: UTG wins t51276. </font>

12-29-2005 09:02 PM

Re: Phil Gordon\'s \"Fish N Chip\" Sandwich
 
Anyone else fold here?

Bigdaddydvo 12-29-2005 09:20 PM

Re: Phil Gordon\'s \"Fish N Chip\" Sandwich
 
There's about 18K in the pot when it gets to me. I put in my 5K and reraise 8K. The initial raiser reraises to isolate, matching my 8 and moving all in. This means I invested 13K to win (18+13+8) or 39K, or exactly 3 to 1. I'm only a 2:1 underdog to AK getting 3:1 on my money. What's not to like?

12-29-2005 09:50 PM

Re: Phil Gordon\'s \"Fish N Chip\" Sandwich
 
Nice move. You can't expect to get better odds than that, especially when you are short stacked. If you win that (1 in 3) you are the new big stack and primed to make a run.

I'll have to add this example to my bag of tricks when I'm short stacked.

12-29-2005 10:00 PM

Re: Phil Gordon\'s \"Fish N Chip\" Sandwich
 
Does anyone know of a calculator, something like ICM, but where you could plug in the entire prize payout structure for an MTT with x-people left? While getting 3-1 on your 2-1 dog is great, it might not be so great if 2 prizes up is a HUGE difference and there are 2 mega-shorties at the table (as an extreme example). It may still be a great play, but I'd love to see the math. ICM only seems to do 1-table SNGs:

http://sharnett.bol.ucla.edu/ICM/ICM.html

Edit: If someone can post the payout structure, I'll try to do the math. (Can't load PS here at work)

Bigdaddydvo 12-29-2005 10:12 PM

Re: Phil Gordon\'s \"Fish N Chip\" Sandwich
 
Still quite a ways from the money here. There were about 200 players left and 81st is the first to get paid, so the money is far from being a consideration yet.

Seeing how this would factor in later on in the money is an interesting consideration though.

12-29-2005 10:17 PM

Re: Phil Gordon\'s \"Fish N Chip\" Sandwich
 
Oh, I just assumed this was the final table for some reason (I think one of the other posters said something about chip leader). Yes, barring the money its all about eV.

But assuming this was the final table, with a standard top-heavy pay structure, I'd be interested to see what the $EV #s bear out.

12-29-2005 10:37 PM

Re: Phil Gordon\'s \"Fish N Chip\" Sandwich
 
Thanks for posting! It's a great move and I'll add it to my bag of tricks.

12-29-2005 10:40 PM

Re: Phil Gordon\'s \"Fish N Chip\" Sandwich
 
Nice move. I like it. Thanks for posting.

12-29-2005 10:48 PM

Re: Phil Gordon\'s \"Fish N Chip\" Sandwich
 
The presumption here is that an UTG raise represents oodles of strength and he will push over to isolate. In that respect, I like the move because an UTG raiser will probably do this almost all the time if he's not a maniac. (Good player's range on raising UTG at full table is probably only a few premium hands)

that being said, I still don't think I like the move because you don't know he has AK.. in this scenario, he had AK, you had a lot of equity and it was the right move.. but UTG could have easily had 10-10-A-A and you'd be 4:1.. I think it was very lucky he had AK, but it still seems like a shot in the dark/push and hope to be 2:1 dog type play.. not at all unreasonable for your chip stack, but more often than not I'm letting this go.


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