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-   -   2346 in SB (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=398425)

Roswell 12-14-2005 04:29 PM

2346 in SB
 
Very loose 2-7 game. Three limpers and I'm the SB with 2346. Raise or just complete?

Yads 12-14-2005 06:50 PM

Re: 2346 in SB
 
Are they limping in and drawing 3, or do they mostly limp with 2 card draws. Seems like a lot of your good cards are gone and you have a gutshot to go along with your 6 the hand is good, but not that good and you'll be out of position for the rest of the hand, i think just completing here is fine.

MarkGritter 12-14-2005 10:05 PM

Re: 2346 in SB
 
[ QUOTE ]
Very loose 2-7 game. Three limpers and I'm the SB with 2346. Raise or just complete?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you happier having the BB come in for free or having to pay? I think you're happier if he doesn't get a free draw. You'd much rather be OOP vs. 3 players than 4. This argues for a raise.

Are they typically limping even solid two-card draws or trying to see a cheap draw with three-card draws? If even one of them is trying to get in cheap with 25xxx (or 345xx) I think it's worth a raise.

Do you want to portray a weak hand or a strong hand? I would tend to raise any 1-card draw (even 8762, although that might better be broken multiway) to maximize folding equity on future rounds.

There is some argument to be made for trying to drive opponents out of a small pot, or make them make a bigger mistake by calling in a small pot. Since the pot is multiway and your hand will do better HU, you might want to keep the pot smaller and just complete.

How far are you planning on going with this hand? You can't fold this hand on the 2nd round. You might be able to find a fold in the 3rd round, but you are drawing pretty smooth--- particularly if you pick up a 5--- and it is going to be tempting to continue, particularly if your opponents stand pat too rough. If you are not going to be able to find a fold, a raise here will help produce a pot worth drawing to on the third round.

I personally would raise this every time. Your opponents have not shown any strength and thus not particularly more likely to have 7s and 8s in their hand than anything else. Although you have fewer 'outs' to a 7 or 8, you still have a very good chance to win this pot. Would you raise 2345 here? 2346 is not a whole lot worse.

Roswell 12-14-2005 10:45 PM

Re: 2346 in SB
 
this hand happened last night in the $60 mix game at the bike. very loose game. the SB was 2/3 of the big blind. three people limped. i decided to just complete because

1)out of position with a drawing hand against people who will never fold
2)need a 7 or an 8 and it's likely that some are dead

timprov 12-14-2005 11:30 PM

Re: 2346 in SB
 
Raise. I'll happily raise 234 here, why not 2346? The only reason I can think of not to raise is for pot manipulation. Somebody who believes in that may come by to comment; my theory is that a late-round advantage is a reason not to sacrifice early advantages that involve making a larger pot.

1)out of position with a drawing hand against people who will never fold

Just about everything's a drawing hand. The whole point of triple draw is getting value when you have the best drawing hand.

Chris Daddy Cool 12-15-2005 12:48 AM

Re: 2346 in SB
 
[ QUOTE ]
1)out of position with a drawing hand against people who will never fold

[/ QUOTE ]

I got a kick out of this since the name of hte game is TRIPLE DRAW.

anyways, i like a raise here, though honestly i wouldn't really care if you didn't.

MarkGritter 12-15-2005 07:18 AM

Re: 2346 in SB
 
[ QUOTE ]

2)need a 7 or an 8 and it's likely that some are dead

[/ QUOTE ]

My earlier post in response to this seems to have been eaten by the Internet Monster.

It is almost always the case that some of the cards you need are dead. Against a _pat hand_, sure, it's quite likely that an 8, a 7, or both are dead. But against random drawing hands I'm not convinced that 7s and 8s are any deader than, say, 5s and 6s.

If you held 7432 you won't worry about 8s, 5s, and 6s being dead.

Maybe I'll work this out on a spreasheet tomorrow and see what reasonable (or unreasonable, they are limpers after all) starting hand selection does to the supply of 7s and 8s.

ETA: Oh, and what makes you think that catching a 9 won't win it for you? 96432 is not all that much worse than a rough 8. Even if you're only a 50% favorite on the last draw you are putting in 25% of the money assuming they chase you all the way.


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