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-   -   1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=405888)

Jester999 12-27-2005 01:35 PM

1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
Played this last night and just have one question about flop play because of stack sizes. We've played an orbit and the game is starting off slow as usual. Lots of limping and no raising preflop. So everyone involved has just about $200.

I pick up black 10s UTG and make it $12 straight. My friend reraises another $15. I've played tons of hands with this guy and we know how each other plays. This means he's got one of 5 hands: AA, KK, QQ, JJ, or AK. The button calls, the big blind calls, and I call. $108 in the pot.

Flop comes:
Kh 10h 7d.

The BB checks. I know my friend will bet AA, AK. I think it's 50/50 whether he bets KK, QQ, JJ.

Do I bet the pot $100 (about half of what I have left), go for a check raise and risk a free card, or just move in?

Thoughts and comments always appreciated.

AdamBragar 12-27-2005 01:43 PM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
I'd limp here, nonetheless...

What will he think you have if you bet this flop. Would you do the same thing with AK, or KQ? The only hand you can fear drawing here is JQ. So I'd check the flop and call a bet and look to move my money in on the turn or river.

Jester999 12-27-2005 01:49 PM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'd limp here, nonetheless...

What will he think you have if you bet this flop. Would you do the same thing with AK, or KQ? The only hand you can fear drawing here is JQ. So I'd check the flop and call a bet and look to move my money in on the turn or river.

[/ QUOTE ]

In this game I limp 99, 10 10 from this position about 50/50. As the game gets deeper and more aggressive after guys drink I'm inclinded to limp, but with the tight table conditions I chose to raise.

I'd play AA, AK, or a huge hand (KK, 10 10)with a big bet on the flop and he knows this.

TheGrifter 12-27-2005 03:40 PM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
Bet half the pot. You're not giving a free card and he will push with a number of holdings. Make it look like a stopper bet with a good draw.

octop 12-27-2005 04:00 PM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
Youre friend needs to stop making such gay reraises

Jester999 12-27-2005 08:20 PM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
[ QUOTE ]
Youre friend needs to stop making such gay reraises

[/ QUOTE ]

While your suggestion is 'badass' I happen to like his 'gay raises'. He's cheaply defining his hand. I may give him a Christmas gift next year.

Matt Flynn 12-28-2005 01:33 AM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
You are right to think that you need to protect the big pot. However, since your buddy is so likely to bet and you have the others trapped in the middle if he does, you have a perfect setup for checkraising all in. I cannot see any other play assuming your assumptions are correct.

Macdaddy Warsaw 12-28-2005 02:13 AM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Youre friend needs to stop making such gay reraises

[/ QUOTE ]

While your suggestion is 'badass' I happen to like his 'gay raises'. He's cheaply defining his hand. I may give him a Christmas gift next year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Defining your hand is quite a silly and pointless concept. Does a barely less than minimum raise actually define anything to you? Or does it reveal things to your opponent? Stop turning your hands into 72o.

ryanghall 12-28-2005 02:16 AM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
The check-raise all in seems to be the right play. It's very likely someone will bet.

Leading for around half pot is the 2nd best play.

I like to limp TT in games like these early. It doesn't seem that tight a game [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Ryan

ansky451 12-28-2005 02:17 AM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Youre friend needs to stop making such gay reraises

[/ QUOTE ]

While your suggestion is 'badass' I happen to like his 'gay raises'. He's cheaply defining his hand. I may give him a Christmas gift next year.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's definitely defining his hand... for his opponents.
When I see people who make tiny reraises with hands, which can be narrowed down to JJ+, I sort of want to buy them a shirt that says "LOTS OF IMPLIED ODDS HERE!"

ansky451 12-28-2005 02:20 AM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
Given the stack sizes, and the size of the pot I think you have to go for a check raise all in here. Given how likely he is to bet and the 2 players to act between the two of you-- you could very easily trap a lot of dead money by checking. The prospect of a free card is bad, although not disastrous given the strength of your hand.

Jester999 12-28-2005 02:07 PM

Results
 
[ QUOTE ]
You are right to think that you need to protect the big pot. However, since your buddy is so likely to bet and you have the others trapped in the middle if he does, you have a perfect setup for checkraising all in. I cannot see any other play assuming your assumptions are correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

The assumptions are correct. I'm guessing with that much money out there that he'd bet 75% to 80% of the time. When I was announcing my bet I realized that it was a good spot for a check raise. Ugh. Oh well. The button just called (??), a heart came on the turn, and the money obviously went in before the river which bricked.

I quickly announced 'chips!' and played on.

Thanks for all the thoughts and replies. As usual, much appreciated.

Jester999 12-28-2005 02:10 PM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
[ QUOTE ]
Defining your hand is quite a silly and pointless concept. Does a barely less than minimum raise actually define anything to you? Or does it reveal things to your opponent? Stop turning your hands into 72o.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anyone else agree with this? It seems to me when I can put my buddy on a narrow range of hands that's a good thing, no?

amoeba 12-28-2005 02:12 PM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Defining your hand is quite a silly and pointless concept. Does a barely less than minimum raise actually define anything to you? Or does it reveal things to your opponent? Stop turning your hands into 72o.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anyone else agree with this? It seems to me when I can put my buddy on a narrow range of hands that's a good thing, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think their point is good for you bad for him. and if you are a true buddy, you would tell him his flaw.

Jester999 12-28-2005 02:49 PM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think their point is good for you bad for him. and if you are a true buddy, you would tell him his flaw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. I'll think about it. But this guy and I don't play soft at each other. Also, if he had a 'tell' on me I'm quite certain he'd let me go on spewing....

And I'd still be his good friend. Take it for it's worth...

swolfe 12-28-2005 03:14 PM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...He's cheaply defining his hand...

[/ QUOTE ]

Defining your hand is quite a silly and pointless concept...

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Jester999 12-28-2005 04:03 PM

Re: 1/2 $200 Max, full ring Live with Middle Set
 
[ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, me too.

I also want to talk further about my friend's flaw as I've been thinking about it. He's a guy I talk poker with regularly. He also thinks very highly of himself as a player. (I'm not judging the point, but simply stating it as fact) We've discussed hands and strategies on many occasions and I think he simply doesn't prefer my opinion at times so I've stopped rendering it.


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