Re: Family pot, PPs
 

I don't think I have ever encountered this situation before. I would probably raise about 99+ though if I did.

Re: Family pot, PPs
 

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As far as the "fewer mistakes in big pots", I disagree. This may be true in most instances, as their small number of outs are suddenly better in the big pot. But, when we hit a set, it is not the usual case, and people will definetly be WAY overcounting their true outs. This means that they will make far more mistakes I think


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Can you give an example of a call you might get in a bigger pot that you wouldn't get in the smaller one? 'Cos on the Party Poker I play, if they think they have a chance of hitting something, they call, pot odds or no pot odds.

Guy.

Re: Family pot, PPs
 

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Good question. I think I might raise 22 if I have two opponents. At 3, I am losing much of my folding equity/non set equity. But, once we reach 5 opponents or more, I am raising again. I am
unsure about this stuff though.

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This is a pretty significant mistake, IMO...for the same reasons that it is good to raise 7 from the BB in a family pot... these players will chase excessively and you will be VERY hard pressed to play your hand correctly post-flop.

Example:

Button limps, SB completes. You raise 33 in BB. (both opponents are your average loose-bad).

Flop: Q82. You bet, 2 callers. Turn is a 7. do you bet again? check-call? if you bet, and get called again you don't know if they have 9T or A2 or Q3. if you check and one of them bets, he colud have A2 and you folded the best hand.

It's just way too hard to play these baby pairs OOP, and the task of realizing your equity becomes even more difficult in a raised pot. If the pot remains unraised you can bet/raise when you think your hand is best and usually take down the pot without having to see a river.

Surf

Re: Family pot, PPs
 

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Good question. I think I might raise 22 if I have two opponents. At 3, I am losing much of my folding equity/non set equity. But, once we reach 5 opponents or more, I am raising again. I am
unsure about this stuff though.

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This is a pretty significant mistake, IMO...for the same reasons that it is good to raise 7 from the BB in a family pot... these players will chase excessively and you will be VERY hard pressed to play your hand correctly post-flop.

Example:

Button limps, SB completes. You raise 33 in BB. (both opponents are your average loose-bad).

Flop: Q82. You bet, 2 callers. Turn is a 7. do you bet again? check-call? if you bet, and get called again you don't know if they have 9T or A2 or Q3. if you check and one of them bets, he colud have A2 and you folded the best hand.

It's just way too hard to play these baby pairs OOP, and the task of realizing your equity becomes even more difficult in a raised pot. If the pot remains unraised you can bet/raise when you think your hand is best and usually take down the pot without having to see a river.

Surf

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In the situation you described, I think it is an easy turn check/fold. I do think we might be taking it down on the flop decently often though. I dunno, I just started doing this. I used to check, but after hearing from a bunch of people that they raise on the button more (I think I remember them saying specifically this situation too), I decided to start trying it. I think we are continuing to the river with about the same frequency with our baby pairs if we raise or not preflop, the only difference is that if we do raise, we have more fold equity on the flop, and the pots we win on the flop are bigger. I think this might make up for the extra SB we are paying preflop, but I am not sure.

Re: Family pot, PPs
 

Just thought I'd add some stuff from Abdul Jalib.

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Similarly, it is an S&M myth that you should raise with baby pairs like 33 after six (or fewer) limpers, even if you know the blinds will call. Although you will flop a set more then 1 in 9 times, you will win the pot less than 1 in 9 times. Since you will win the pot less than your fair share, you should not raise. A possible exception is when the raise has a decent chance of buying you a free card on the flop, as this now improves your chance of winning to better than 1 in 9, but it is normally rare that all 8 opponents would check to the raiser.


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Note that Abdul is talking about button raises with a pocket pair here, and saying not to do it. I reckon the argument against raising is all the stronger at a shorthanded table and in the big blind.

I don't make these raises myself (I read that Abdul stuff five years ago and took it to heart) but I am still not sure...

Guy.

Re: Family pot, PPs
 

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the only difference is that if we do raise, we have more fold equity on the flop, and the pots we win on the flop are bigger. I think this might make up for the extra SB we are paying preflop, but I am not sure.

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I'm not so sure about that. You get alot of fold equity when you bet out from one of the blinds in an unraised pot...players assume you had to improve to make that move, whereas continuation-bets are usually read for what they are - mostly semibluffs and the occasional made hand.

Surf