Re: The Crusades
 

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Nice stuff this religion.

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This remark certainly does eliminate any doubt as to your open-mindedness.

Re: The Crusades
 

"Northern Africa, parts of Spain, and other regions, including the area around Jerusalem, had been systematically put to the sword",

No, they hadn't.

Talking about fascism and totalitarianism 1400 years before they emerged in the 20th century is ridiculous.

Re: The Crusades
 

Nicky, Islam has always been a totalitarian system, and Mohammad and his armies spread it by the sword.

Perch
 

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Ever worry about falling off that perch you sit upon?

[/ QUOTE ] You object to my calling out MMMMMM's profound ignorance of History?

How else are we supposed to call it? Here he claims that the slaughters by Christians were due mainly to a ..misunderstanding!

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

The Crux
 

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It was correct for the West to try to push back the invading relio-fascism, and its armies, to from whence they came.

[/ QUOTE ] And Nut4Dawgs dares to whine about my high perch!

"Where they came"?! You tell us "where they came"! Should be interesting.

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By the way, I'm not demanding "punishment" of anyone.

[/ QUOTE ] You advocated the collective punishment of innocents and you have recommended mass retaliation against civilian populations -- in this very page. Either you forget easily or you think we do. (I don't.)

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FASCISM, RELIGIOUS OR OTHERWISE, SHOULD ALWAYS BE RESISTED. PERIOD.

[/ QUOTE ] Your ideas, such as sampled above regarding punishment of innocents, are quite close to totalitarianism, actually, although I'm sure you are blissfully unaware of it.

Re: The Crusades
 

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Your libel of this monument of Western civilization on the spurious grounds of opposing to "fascist totalitarianism . . . precisely what Islam is" is further proof of your unrepentant bigotry.

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And also, of course, proof of why circular logic is such an easily recognizable fallacy:



"<font color="red">Why were 11th century Islamic states so bad?</font> ”

“<font color="green">Because they were totalitarian and fascist</font> ”

“<font color="red">Why were they totalitarian and fascist?</font> ”

“<font color="green">Because they were Islamic</font> ”

“<font color="red">But what’s so bad about Islamic states?</font> ”

“<font color="green">They’re inherently totalitarian and fascist</font> ”

“<font color="red">But why are Islamic states so inherently totalitarian and fascist?</font> ”

“<font color="green">Because they’re Islamic</font> ”

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You'll notice our friend in green is caught red-handed using this type of fallacious logic.

Re: The Crusades
 

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I take your refusal to address my proof of your racism as tacit agreement with my position.

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Chris, we've argued about this before, and I categorically denied (and still deny) deny any form of racist ideology on my part. Moreover, YOU KNOW THAT I DO, and you know that such relentless accusations on your part, which I grew weary of endlessly rebutting, are the very reason I had you on ignore for so long. Therefore, you are herewith being UTTERLY disingenuous when you claim that you take my silence as tacit approval. You absolutely know better, and it is dishonesty like this that makes me seriously question your motives.

You know little of Islamic ideology, or of what the Koran says, or what Mohammed did and said, if you think ancient areas under Islam--including Spain--were not under a form of religio-fascistic control, a type of totalitarianism, as it were. Hey, and guess what? Today, most areas under Islam *still* are under a form of totalitarian control--a religio-political form--as you easily can see, looking at various Islamic countries around the world.

Guess what, Chris? It isn't "bigoted" to speak the TRUTH. And the truth is that Islam has always been an absolutist ideology. As Ibn Warraq says, there may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate.

I think you ought perhaps to read some Orianna Fallaci or Robert Spencer--unless perhaps the only freedoms you care about are Leftist causes. If you value human freedom, and religious freedom; and despise authoritarian control and totalitarianism, you will come to the conclusion that Islam simply is not conducive to freedom.

Re: The Crusades
 

DVaut1, it has nothing to do with "circular logic." Rather, it has everything to do with what is contained in the Koran (and somewhat with how Mohammed chose to live his life). The Koran contains specific injunctions and instructions, and if these are followed, the result is an authoritarian/religious society and government.

Where You Were, I Was
 

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You ought perhaps to read some Orianna Fallaci (...)

[/ QUOTE ] Gawd, this brings back memories! I was reading that Italian reporter's over-the-top stuff way, way back in the 70s! Aren't you supposed to be over her crudities yet?

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Spain ... were ... under a form of religio-fascistic control, a type of totalitarianism.

[/ QUOTE ]Funny how that period and that region produced some of the most exquisite achievements in art and science!

When you get some time off reading yer Ayn Rand, google up "algorithm", to check out the etymology and what kind of "religio-fascist" (sic) was behind it.

Re: The Crusades
 

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DVaut1, it has nothing to do with "circular logic." Rather, it has everything to do with what is contained in the Koran (and somewhat with how Mohammed chose to live his life). The Koran contains specific injunctions and instructions, and if these are followed, the result is an authoritarian/religious society and government.

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Uh huh...go on, I'm listening oh-so-closely ...

Wait, I'll have to get back to you on this. Phil Hellmuth is giving a poker etiquette lesson on TV (about how to take bad beats) that I really want to catch, given how much credence, credibility, and authority he has on the subject.