Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

I believe that it is a falacy that our government cares about the nature of foreign countries' political systems unless vilifing them is convienent for us with respect to propaganda.

Meh. This is true of all government.

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

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GWB is the figure-head of the interests of the monied elite in the US. They are people who want to cut taxes for the ultra wealthy and slash wages for the working class.

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Well, I would like to see taxes cut for the ultra-wealthy and wages slashed for much of the working class. Guess that makes me one of the moneyed elite [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

how much do you make per year?

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

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how much do you make per year?

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Not so much that I couldn't benefit substantially from paying less for many basic goods and services.

It's not just how much you make, it's how much you have to spend to get your lawn mowed, to get your hair cut, to get your car worked on...etc.

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

As Moderator at 2+2, he makes a bazilliongillion dollars. And that's just one job. Then there's playing poker on the side.

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

So once the lefty loony fringe realized that they were absolutely acting like tools with regards to Tillman, they decided to make him a convert to their cause after he died. Brilliant. I haven't heard this.

Let me see if I have the Pat Tillman [censored] fantasy accurately...

Pat returns from the war saying that it's wrong. He testifies before congress saying that American troops are trained to commit atrocities and that he himself participated in atrocities. He is whisked around the world to meet with all the great liberal thinkers and handed the keys to the gold plated Kerry winning strategy for Presidential Campaigning. Only this time, the media alliance is able to stop the veterans who served with Pat from getting out the truth. It's camelot one more time. The glory days of losing in Vietnam and Watergate are relived as the war on terror fails to prevent a WMD attack in the US. Everyone once again loves liberals because of Pat....

You people are sick.

Provide the documentation from Pat's fellow veterans that he was against the war. I will accept notorized testimony on paper or video provided with proper creditials that the person on the video actually served with Tillman in the form of service records.

Did you get this Tillman hated the war stuff from Rall? He's been so spot on factually correct in everything else he's ever said that it must be true.

This is your chance to be brilliant. You can dazzle me with the evidence I asked for. Or, you can say you are not my monkey. It's up to you.

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

We won vietnam you idiot, dont you watch fox news?

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

"I don't believe it," seethed Ann Coulter.

Her contempt was directed at a September 25 San Francisco Chronicle story reporting that former NFL star and Army Ranger war hero Pat Tillman, who was killed in Afghanistan last year, believed the US war on Iraq was "f***ing illegal" and counted Noam Chomsky among his favorite authors. It must have been quite a moment for Coulter, who upon Tillman's death described him in her inimitably creepy fashion as "an American original--virtuous, pure and masculine like only an American male can be." She tried to discredit the story as San Francisco agitprop, but this approach ran into a slight problem: The article's source was Pat Tillman's mother, Mary.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051024/zirin

As for Chomsky, whom Ann Coulter would undoubtedly label "treasonous," Mary Tillman says a private meeting was planned between him and Pat after Pat's return--a meeting that never took place, of course. Chomsky confirms this scenario. This was the real Pat Tillman: someone who, like the majority of this country, was doubting the rationale for war, distrusting his Commander in Chief and looking for answers. The real Pat Tillman, the one with three dimensions, must stick in the throat of the Bush-Coulter gang, a pit in the cherry atop their bloody sundae.

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal dissent?
 

“I can see it like a movie screen,” Baer said. “We were outside of (a city in southern Iraq) watching as bombs were dropping on the town. We were at an old air base, me, Kevin and Pat, we weren’t in the fight right then. We were talking. And Pat said, ‘You know, this war is so f— illegal.’ And we all said, ‘Yeah.’ That’s who he was. He totally was against Bush.”

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...NGD7ETMNM1.DTL

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

For all those who wish to reference it, this is the Coulter peice on Tillman:

link

Let me ask you question, how come Pat's mother isn't out shouting at the top of her lungs in front of the Bush ranch in Crawford, Texas?

You'd think she would be MUCH bigger than Cindy Sheehan. It looks like this little liberal exercise of the press went splat like wet toilet paper on a bathroom wall. Probably because no one has heard anything more from Tillman's mom. One would think, at least I do, that if she had a score to settle over the obviously vast right wing conspiracy to kill her peace loving Army Ranger son, she would be out shouting to the rafters and it would be the biggest news for months until she got answers.

Why has none of this happened?

That's where it all falls apart for me.

Go monkey Go.

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

Cant you read? They lied to her about how he died to manipulate the media. I completely obliterated your assertations you fool. All you can do is resort to ann coultersque name calling lol.

No more calling me a monkey, you go on block now.

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

For anyone else who is interested, I thought this web page about Tillman and his funeral was really illuminating. You have to scroll down some to see the part about Tillman. But, it does give you the sense that it's all really a lot more complicated than you might suspect.

Perhaps these complications are the reason why this story hasn't been beat to death by the press. I can't believe for a minute that they would abstain from it out of respect for the family.

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

Oh no, I made a monkey troll's ignore list. I guess he won't call me an idiot anymore.

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

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You'd think she would be MUCH bigger than Cindy Sheehan. It looks like this little liberal exercise of the press went splat like wet toilet paper on a bathroom wall. Probably because no one has heard anything more from Tillman's mom. One would think, at least I do, that if she had a score to settle over the obviously vast right wing conspiracy to kill her peace loving Army Ranger son, she would be out shouting to the rafters and it would be the biggest news for months until she got answers.

Why has none of this happened?

That's where it all falls apart for me.

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I have absolutely no idea how Pat Tillman felt about the war, or what his mother does or doesn't believe.

But regardless, merely because his mother hasn't sought attention means 'it all falls apart' for you?

There could be a many, varied reasons why she hasn't sought attention following Pat's death, irrespective of the veracity of stories regarding vast right-wing conspiracies, her son's opposition to the war, etc.

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

I can find no fault with your thinking, DVaut.

I honestly don't know how Tillman felt about the war he was in. I do know, that on mission, sometimes, my feelings about what I was doing changed on a daily basis. I read Thereau, too. It did not make me anti-military. Some days I was happy to be a part of something meaningful and some days I felt I was a pawn in a game where I had no stake, other than my own life.

I don't know how is mother feels about his death. I could not begin to fathom the rage or despair she may feel. I cannot understand her motivations for saying what she did to the press. One of her reasons for not embracing the media is perhaps she does not wish to be percieved as a publicity hound capitalizing on the death of her son or perhaps she does not want to be thrown out like so much used kleenex when she is no longer the cause celebe.

So perhaps all the inuendo is true. Perhaps Tillman got fragged on orders straight from the desk of Karl Rove to avoid his meteoric Kerryesque rise to political prominance upon his return, which, as we all know, would have been a disaster for the maniacal power elites which pull the strings of GWB. Perhaps....If only.....

Or maybe it's fevered fantasy from desparate minds, who are desparate to believe they have the world figured out.

More likely, the truth is somewhere in between and will never be known for sure.

I am no longer going to discuss Pat Tillman as political theatre. I cheapen his sacrifice by doing so. So do all those who seek political gain from the deaths of soldiers. For that I feel sorry.

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

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GWB loves the Jewish state because it is a prerequisite for the rapture. what happens to the Jews during the rapture anyway?

Kurn: Well, hold on a minute. Some Christian fundies support Israel for that reason, true, but it's a stretch to sat that Dubya does. More likely he supports israel because they're the only true republic in the region, but I guess that doesn't fit your Weltanschauung.

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I believe that it is a falacy that our government cares about the nature of foreign countries' political systems unless vilifing them is convienent for us with respect to propaganda.


Kurn: Meh. This is true of all government.

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Hehe, now thats trolling.

Re: Is GWB exploiting a state of perpetual war to stifle internal diss
 

No, it's entirely possible to support Israel for it's form of government and to ultimately not care how accurate that opinion is, *and* it's entirely possible to truly believe that their form of government is of value *and* support it because it helps your own cause (i.e it has propaganda value)

Finally, he thinks that supporting a government for propaganda reasons is unique to some political entities. That is supremely naive.