Too Weak?
 

B&M 20/40 with a full kill. This is not a kill pot.

UTG is a major LAG with very low PFR standards. MP1 is a loose passive fish whose cold calling standards are what you would expect from such a player. I'm on the button.

UTG raises...he does that alot. MP1 Cold calls. He does that alot. Folded to me and I 3bet w/ ATo (?). Both blinds fold, others call. Three of us.

Flop:

A-K-9 rainbow.

Check/check/bet/call/call.

Turn
Js (makes a spade draw possible).

When this card hit MP1 had a definate reaction to it. The reaction could have ranged from picking up a flush draw to making a straight, but he definately liked that card.

Checked around.

River
xS (puts 3 spades on the board)

check/check/hero...

Three questions.

1. Is preflop as standard as I think it is, given the likely ranges of the opponents?

2. How horrible is the turn check? I really wasn't sure if I was drawing or not, but figured if I got raised I had to call. Is this one of those spots where its right to check with outs/position or should I have bet?

3. Whats the best river line?

Thanks,

lf

Re: Too Weak?
 

Given your reads I like it all the way. Bet the river, call a raise from UTG but fold to a raise from MP LP fish.

Re: Too Weak?
 

Bet the turn, you arent sure if you are behind or not, MP might have farted or something, and threw you off, since hes passive, he isnt going to check raise you anyways? But if I didnt bet turn, Id def bet river, when checked back to me.

Re: Too Weak?
 

I think 3-bets w/ marginal holdings are fine if they tend to be slightly better than raiser's min. standards for EP raises (V?), combined with a likely weak coldcall.

On turn, I think you must charge gutshot/flush draws. Isn't that what you bargained for when you got involved in a big pot w/ AT? That J very well may have paired PFR w/ QJ or TJ. At the very least it looks like extra outs w/ anyone holding paint.

Given that you checked turn, if it was B, bet, V check. If it was someone else I guess bet since your turn check is likely to get at least one call.

Re: Too Weak?
 

I'm folding this PF, of course, but I am an online player. The turn is definately a bet. As is the river.

Re: Too Weak?
 

you fold pf if the first guy is 65/35 and the 2nd guy is 70/8?

Re: Too Weak?
 

[ QUOTE ]
you fold pf if the first guy is 65/35 and the 2nd guy is 70/8?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say thats a reasonably accurate representation of the players in question. I think PF is an easy 3bet.

lf

Re: Too Weak?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think 3-bets w/ marginal holdings are fine if they tend to be slightly better than raiser's min. standards for EP raises (V?), combined with a likely weak coldcall.

On turn, I think you must charge gutshot/flush draws. Isn't that what you bargained for when you got involved in a big pot w/ AT? That J very well may have paired PFR w/ QJ or TJ. At the very least it looks like extra outs w/ anyone holding paint.

Given that you checked turn, if it was B, bet, V check. If it was someone else I guess bet since your turn check is likely to get at least one call.

[/ QUOTE ]

PFR was V. Cold Caller was new to the 20 game, but horrible.

I was really unsure of the turn card, but V was not the issue. MP1 reacted, and in hindsite I can see why, but the first thing that jumped into my mind was KJ or QT, both likely cold calling but non 3 betting hands. I new that if V c/r the turn i'd have to call down, cuz its him, and if MP1 c/r the turn i'd have to call because of the likelyhood of my 2pair/counterfeit outs being good, as well as the gutshot. I'm still not sure whats the right move.

lf

Thoughts/Results
 

I bet the river. They both called. UTG had Kx suited, and MP1 had QJ for a pair/gutshot. MHIG.

Thanks for the replies, any other comments are appreciated.

lf

Re: Thoughts/Results
 

LF,

If PFR led on the river since it was checked on the turn and MP calls, do you overcall?

Maybe the answer to your turn question lies in the answer to this one.