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-   -   river sexy after turn check/check HU (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=406420)

Lurker4 12-28-2005 07:24 AM

river sexy after turn check/check HU
 
I think this is a standard river checkraise but just wanted to check. Party 10/20 6m, currently 5-handed, folded to TAGish button who openraises. Button has TAG stats but has made some plays that IMO were suboptimal, whatever thats worth. I haven't been at the table very long and as far as I remember haven't gotten out of line. SB folds, I call in the BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Flop is Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I check, Button bets, I raise, Button 3-bets, I call. Turn is K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I check, Button checks. River is A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I check (obviously planning on raising). My question is, after Button 3-bets as drawless of a flop as there is and checks an overcard turn, does he nearly always have AJ/AT/Ax (which is definitely betting the river and likely calling a raise b/c my line looks weird). Can he have a pair like 88-33/J7-67 that just wants to pay 2.5 BB to showdown as opposed to 3 BB from calling my c/r and calling turn + river bets? Those hands don't bet the river but may call if I bet, even on this scary board. Another reason for betting is that since villain is a TAG he may (although its probably unlikely) raise the river w/just an A, so I'll get 2 bets in anyway vs Ax.

Alobar 12-28-2005 01:55 PM

Re: river sexy after turn check/check HU
 
you need to make some love to the "enter" key

I think this play is good.

Lmn55d 12-28-2005 02:37 PM

Re: river sexy after turn check/check HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
Can he have a pair like 88-33/J7-67 that just wants to pay 2.5 BB to showdown as opposed to 3 BB from calling my c/r and calling turn + river bets? Those hands don't bet the river but may call if I bet, even on this scary board. Another reason for betting is that since villain is a TAG he may (although its probably unlikely) raise the river w/just an A, so I'll get 2 bets in anyway vs Ax.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the most likely scenario and thus I would bet.

AviD 12-28-2005 02:43 PM

Re: river sexy after turn check/check HU
 
I don't think a TAG is going to call your river lead with 66 or less, he may bluff at it but chances are he'll fold. He may call a lead with a hand like JJ-88, but not bet them. Beyond that, you are ahead of AJ-A8, which he'll probably bet and you can CR, but you have an A so that decreases the chances he does. Plus if you bet (assumed value bet on his part) and he has an A, he may very well raise figuring you were betting a Q or the like. So you get your 2BBs in.

Ultimately I like betting here and calling a raise. I wouldn't want to a miss a value bet from a hand that would have called, nor do I want to face a 3-bet from a TAG (creative, tricky, occassional suboptimal playing style) on the river who may have something like A7. I don't think he'd check thru the turn with AQ, certainly not AK unless or some strong hand (set+) unless he is pretty tricky. You may get a mid A to raise the river, and you'll likely get called by 88-JJ. You probably won't get called by 66-33 so betting out and checking through have the same net, except you have the info about his hand which you really don't need, I'd rather collect the bet from middle pockets or induce a raise from a weaker A.

Lurker4 12-29-2005 04:29 PM

Re: river sexy after turn check/check HU
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can he have a pair like 88-33/J7-67 that just wants to pay 2.5 BB to showdown as opposed to 3 BB from calling my c/r and calling turn + river bets? Those hands don't bet the river but may call if I bet, even on this scary board. Another reason for betting is that since villain is a TAG he may (although its probably unlikely) raise the river w/just an A, so I'll get 2 bets in anyway vs Ax.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the most likely scenario and thus I would bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think he pays off with all of those holdings though? This is a scary board and if I didn't have a made hand on the flop some of my nonpair hands have made a pair or better by the river. My only chance of winning a bet from some of his weaker hands may be only by checking and inducing a bluff from like 66-33 that wants to push me off my small pocket pair or weak 7.

wackjob 12-29-2005 04:41 PM

Re: river sexy after turn check/check HU
 
If you don't have a strong read I think a river bet is key, but if you know your villain is more than 50% likely to bet and you can c/r, I think this is a superior play.

danzasmack 12-29-2005 04:44 PM

Re: river sexy after turn check/check HU
 
I think this is a standard river checkraise but just wanted to check.

Party 10/20 6m, currently 5-handed
Folded to TAGish button who openraises. Button has TAG stats but has made some plays that IMO were suboptimal, whatever thats worth. I haven't been at the table very long and as far as I remember haven't gotten out of line. SB folds, I call in the BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Flop is Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I check, Button bets, I raise, Button 3-bets, I call.

Turn is K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I check, Button checks.

River is A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I check (obviously planning on raising).

My question is, after Button 3-bets as drawless of a flop as there is and checks an overcard turn, does he nearly always have AJ/AT/Ax (which is definitely betting the river and likely calling a raise b/c my line looks weird). Can he have a pair like 88-33/J7-67 that just wants to pay 2.5 BB to showdown as opposed to 3 BB from calling my c/r and calling turn + river bets? Those hands don't bet the river but may call if I bet, even on this scary board. Another reason for betting is that since villain is a TAG he may (although its probably unlikely) raise the river w/just an A, so I'll get 2 bets in anyway vs Ax.

Lmn55d 12-29-2005 05:33 PM

Re: river sexy after turn check/check HU
 
eh i think you'd be surprised how often "TAGS" pay off with those type of hands


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