Wierd Hand
 

SB is a timid 5.5/4.5 while UTG was 75/24/1

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero....and what does he do for the rest of the hand?

I raised feeling if I could conceivably invoke MUBS and get SB to fold my equity was through the roof. I didn't give UTG much credit.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

ok think about what will happen if you raise:
1)SB will fold and UTG will call or 3-bet (doesnt matter which)
MAN THIS IS FREAKING AWESOME YAY!!!
2)SB calls, UTG 3-bets/calls
MAN THIS FREAKIN SUCKS YOU PUT IN A BUNCH OF BIG BETS BEHIND SB
3) SB 3-bets
POW I JUST SHOT MYSELF.

the pot is 10 BB's you are putting in 2. if SB folds you will almost certaintly win. do some EV calcs on this im jumping in the shower.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

3-bet the freakin flop!??! Why are you smooth calling there?

Re: Wierd Hand
 

Why not just 3-bet the flop?

Re: Wierd Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
1)SB will fold and UTG will call or 3-bet (doesnt matter which)
MAN THIS IS FREAKING AWESOME YAY!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
Agree.

[ QUOTE ]
2)SB calls, UTG 3-bets/calls
MAN THIS FREAKIN SUCKS YOU PUT IN A BUNCH OF BIG BETS BEHIND SB

[/ QUOTE ]
If UTG just calls this doesn't suck. Well, we're behind almost always but it would have cost the same to call down, but by raising we're at least getting a chance to fold AK from SB or even a hand like QQ.

[ QUOTE ]
3) SB 3-bets
POW I JUST SHOT MYSELF.

[/ QUOTE ]
Getting 3-betted by any of the 2 other players would suck though.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

The first error in this hand is preflop and it's big. The second is the flop. We should not have gotten to this awkward situation on the turn at all. Now that we're here I'm raising.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
The first error in this hand is preflop and it's big.

[/ QUOTE ]
What's wrong with his preflop play?

Re: Wierd Hand
 

If you have a good amount of hand versus the SB, capping preflop may not gain you all that much with the SB super tight PFR range.

3-bet this flop, if the SB has AK, you've got a good chance to blow it off since he seems so weak and you can face the LAG HU.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

Do you really thinkg SB is 3-Betting this pf w.o JJ-AA with those stats? I capped pf to take control of the hand in position. On the flop, a 3-bet puts a lot of bets in there when I'm likely behind of SB. If he caps it sucks. Anyway, I haven't played in like 2 weeks, so my game is off. I lost 25 BB's last night, which isn't out of the ordinary, but I would have like a decent winning session.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

You get 3bet preflop by a weakie who raises pf 4.5% of the time? And you cap? You'll need a J to win 95% of the time here, capping is spewage.

Now SB donks the flop, so you have 8-1 from the pot with probably 2 outs. Nice. Calling is absolutely HORRIBLE. If you 3bet, you can get UTG to donate with his 77 or whatever, and SB, could have AdKd I guess. I'm probably folding though.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really thinkg SB is 3-Betting this pf w.o JJ-AA with those stats?

[/ QUOTE ]
Top 5% of hands would be something like 99+, AJs+, KQs, AKo. You've got decent equity against this range. Note that his PFR matches his VP$IP - this leads me to believe one of two things: 1) He's raising almost every time he enters a pot (which means ALL the hands I mentioned above) 2) your read isn't very good. I think you're a decent poster - but I'm more inclined to believe #2. I can't ever recall seeing a 5% VP$IP player in several hundred thousand hands.

[ QUOTE ]
I capped pf to take control of the hand in position. On the flop, a 3-bet puts a lot of bets in there when I'm likely behind of SB.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then why not fold the flop. If you're sure your behind - you don't have odds to continue. Fold. Otherwise.... raise that [censored] up. You've got plenty of equity against a reasonable SB range and the donkey.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Top 5% of hands would be something like 99+, AJs+, KQs, AKo. You've got decent equity against this range.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's 5% preflop raise, not 5% preflop 3bet.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

I am folding the flop, SB has you pummeled.
I am not sure if I'd cap preflop against a timid players reraise.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Top 5% of hands would be something like 99+, AJs+, KQs, AKo. You've got decent equity against this range.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's 5% preflop raise, not 5% preflop 3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
He's also a 5% VP$IP... If he's playing 5% of his hands and also raising 5% of his hands he's raising every hand he enters the pot with. I understand that the 3-bet means more than a raise. In this case however, I think you're looking at a wider range than QQ-AA. The presence of the idiot in the pot certainly gives us enough equity to push our hand a bit. If we 3-bet the flop and SB folds and two cards bigger than a jack we've done something good.

If there was another read to suggest that we are, in fact, only looking at QQ-AA here then we shouldn't be capping PF or putting any bets in after the flop without a set.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

if he is raising everytime he would be 5/100

Re: Wierd Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
if he is raising everytime he would be 5/100

[/ QUOTE ]
That's not the way that I understand PT calculates PFR. Perhaps I'm incorrect.

EDIT: Can the OP provide the # of hands, AF, WSD% and W$SD%... I'm just curious.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you really thinkg SB is 3-Betting this pf w.o JJ-AA with those stats?

[/ QUOTE ]
Top 5% of hands would be something like 99+, AJs+, KQs, AKo. You've got decent equity against this range. Note that his PFR matches his VP$IP - this leads me to believe one of two things: 1) He's raising almost every time he enters a pot (which means ALL the hands I mentioned above) 2) your read isn't very good. I think you're a decent poster - but I'm more inclined to believe #2. I can't ever recall seeing a 5% VP$IP player in several hundred thousand hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

He raises 5% of his hands. We should intuitively conclude that he 3 bets a lot less than that especially OP. Just because he's 5/5 doesn't mean he automatically plays AQs everytime for a raise regardless of circumstances. I'm thinking you are reading too far into this.

[ QUOTE ]
I capped pf to take control of the hand in position. On the flop, a 3-bet puts a lot of bets in there when I'm likely behind of SB. [ QUOTE ]

Then why not fold the flop. If you're sure your behind - you don't have odds to continue. Fold. Otherwise.... raise that [censored] up. You've got plenty of equity against a reasonable SB range and the donkey.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]



I think that this was the way to play the hand.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Top 5% of hands would be something like 99+, AJs+, KQs, AK.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is correct. The rest of your reasoning is way off imo. First of all when I read a post I assume the stats are over a decent ammount of hands, at least 200+, unless OP points out that the read is vague. I don't think analysing how the stats look and judge how many hands they are over is what we should be focusing on doing when replying to a post. Btw, when his stats is 5.5/4.5 it suggests that 1 hand is at least 1% and because of that this sample is at least 100 hands big, probably bigger.

SB raises 5% of his hands, that's including blind steals and openraising, yet he's still not raising more than 5%. Add to that he's extremely tight which probably don't makes him unpredictable or acting on random. I think he's 3-bet oop tells us pretty clear that we're dealing with really strong hand, AA-QQ is likely his range, add a few discounted AK/JJ combos and you're still in a really bad shape.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
if he is raising everytime he would be 5/100

[/ QUOTE ]

That's incorrect. If he's raising every hand he VP$IP it would be 5/5 20/20 100/100 etc. PFR can never be greater than VPIP

Re: Wierd Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if he is raising everytime he would be 5/100

[/ QUOTE ]

That's incorrect. If he's raising every hand he VP$IP it would be 5/5 20/20 100/100 etc. PFR can never be greater than VPIP

[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I thought.

I really think you need to decide on the flop if you've got equity against the SB. Either you're 3-betting and trying to knock out his high-card combos - or you're folding.

Re: Wierd Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
if he is raising everytime he would be 5/100

[/ QUOTE ]

delete. delete. I SAID DELETE!