Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

The other night a friend of mine was playing in a tournament, $18 rebuy. About 300 started and down to 44 players he had to go out so asked me to play. He left me with 64k chips, average was roughly 45k. No agreement was talked about at the time which I regret now. I had played a couple of times for him before but never won anything.

Anyway, the MTT went really well and after about 2/3 hours play I ended up getting 2nd for $3k. He came online again when there were 5 players left, and watched me play it. When it finished it was vvv late so we all just went to bed.

He sent me a message the day after asking how much do I think my share should be...how much do you think it should be?

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

i'd say around 15%

but if i had done that for a friend, i wouldn't expect a share

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

I would be hoping for anything from 20% to 50% depending on the person.

It is however their money, but I would reward someone for those amounts depending on how much they played, and have always found that I get those kinds of amounts if it goes the other way.

Lori

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

Dude, if you had busted, you would pay 0% of the buyin. Guess how much your share is? Thats right: Zero percent, period.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, if you had busted, you would pay 0% of the buyin. Guess how much your share is? Thats right: Zero percent, period.

[/ QUOTE ]

by the same token, if he had not taken over, his friend would get ZERO for placing anywhere ITM. It works both ways. IMO i think 25% to 50% is fair.

I just played in a free roll sponsored by a local radio station last night on AP and was 1 hour in and in 1st place with 23k. I was having compatability problems with having that program and PS running at the same time, so I asked a family member to take over. I told him that he could have 2/3 of whatever he won. Granted first place only paid $300, but if he didnt take over i was dumping it completely or pushing allin every hand until it was gone. With out his help, i have 0% chance of getting anything. Just food for thought.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

However, it's a dick move to take any money, unless he gives it to you without your request.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

[ QUOTE ]
However, it's a dick move to take any money, unless he gives it to you without your request.

[/ QUOTE ]

you are missing the point of OP's post. he said his friend e-mailed him asking him how much he thought his share should be, so he is giving it to him without his request. Discussions have been based on this information.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

50% was the first number that came to mind.

If you don't take over, he gets $0 right?

I realize he got it down to 44 players on his own, but it's not that hard to get to the bubble in MMTs, the real deal is what goes on once you get to the bubble.

I gaurantee he is surprised/estatic that you got 2nd. There's no way he would have expected to do that well himself.

Ultimately, it's up to him since you didn't work something out. But I would say 50%, and don't stress or be pissed of if he offers something lower. Tell him you think 50% is fair and don't get too caught up in heavy negotiating....unless the money is more important to you than his friendship.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

$500-1000 feels right to me.

If you were getting Staked, a 50/50 deal would be reasonable. Since, he went beyond that, and gave you an above average stack with 85% of the field gone, I'd say you deserve much less than that. I would figure out what his % of total chips was, back that % out of the prize pool, then split the rest 50/50, or 40/60.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

Did some rigorous calculations based on a few assumptions and:

$775.85

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

FWIW, I had a mod from this forum take over for me in a WSOP satelite. The arrangement was 500$ plus 10% of me at the WSOP if he won a seat. He was taking over during the 2nd hour (it expected to take at least 5 or 6), and I has just above average stack. So, you can say, he was playing for 15% of his winnings. So, maybe 500$ is even too much.

Also, if I asked a freind to finish a tournament for me, and he did that well, I would be giving him at least 2/3 of his winnings.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

I think an fair way to split it would be to chop it up by how long you each played it for. If you played it for 2/3 hours, how long did the tournament take?


-ChipsAhoya

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think an fair way to split it would be to chop it up by how long you each played it for. If you played it for 2/3 hours, how long did the tournament take?


-ChipsAhoya

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesnt make sense. What if I asked you to play 2 tournaments, one I gave you 3000 chips, 45 players left, 1500/3000 blinds. In the other, I gave you 90,000 chips with the same characteristics. Do you really think both opportunities are worth the same?

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think an fair way to split it would be to chop it up by how long you each played it for. If you played it for 2/3 hours, how long did the tournament take?


-ChipsAhoya

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesnt make sense. What if I asked you to play 2 tournaments, one I gave you 3000 chips, 45 players left, 1500/3000 blinds. In the other, I gave you 90,000 chips with the same characteristics. Do you really think both opportunities are worth the same?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a horrible example, since time played with 1 BB is not going to amount to any time at all unless you double up like a gazilion times. but if that 3k and the 90k were both to make it to 2nd place finishes, hmmm....

thinking about it, it probably shouldn't matter either way. the friend needed someone to fill in or he was going to be blinded out by sitting out because he couldnt finish. I think regardless of the chip stack something between (anywhere between) 25% and 50% is a fair cut, leaving it up to the original players discretion. Maybe 30%.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

I have had the experience of actually "working" for someone that would put me into tournaments. It was a very professional relationship and a business. When he paid all the fees it was 50-50 split AFTER entry fees.

Now, your friend put up his own fees. He got the starting stack built up reasonably well too. He left you roughly 50% ahead of the avg stack also. Yet you did the last bit of the tourny and the point to which the money gets good.

I would think the value of this is less than what my arrangements were, and I'm sure you understand that.

My thoughts are around 25%. One poster has suggested about $750 based on his own math. Curiously hits the 25% # on the head.

Now, thats all business.

If it was one of my friends, they wouldnt take any more than 25% no matter how hard I tried to give them more. But my friends are like that.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

I'll answer all the questions asked...

[ QUOTE ]
50% was the first number that came to mind.

If you don't take over, he gets $0 right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes thats right, money paid from 27th place. Unless he managed to survive just posting the blinds to scrape into the money

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

Without any prior agreement, I'd vote for 50/50. He got you there, you got him home.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think an fair way to split it would be to chop it up by how long you each played it for. If you played it for 2/3 hours, how long did the tournament take?


-ChipsAhoya

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he played for a little over 3 hours, and I think I played for 2 and a half hours (roughly)

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

i think 1k is about right

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

1k

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

hmm.. first off your friend put you in a precarious position by asking how much you think you should get.. I mean how are you supposed to really answer that..

50/50 comes to mind first, the nature of MTT's, considering how hard it is just to make a FT (even with an above avg chip stack), that would seem alright.. but i'd say 1K works too.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

I'm with Marwan- your friend ought to make you a generous offer, not ask you how much you think you deserve.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

[ QUOTE ]
hmm.. first off your friend put you in a precarious position by asking how much you think you should get.. I mean how are you supposed to really answer that..

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what I thought, and felt very uncomfortable

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

just tell him "Eh, whatever you feel like. "

put the pressure back on him. And be happy getting anything.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

You guys saying he doesn't deserve anything are being retarded.

Ever heard of a stake? He gave him the tournament to play with a lot of play left in it.

I'd say you are ENTITLED to up to 50%

Editied for a better number.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

Ok the end to this "episode" was basically..

I replied a $ figure from a common consensus of people I asked, as I felt I couldnt give him a personal opinion.

He immediately changed his attitude and started to almost suggest I was in the wrong and looking for more money that my play deserved. He gave me $250 which he decided was fair, which is fair enough at the end of the day as its his money.

He has recently contacted me saying he is now giving up poker, and wont be speaking to me again.

I feel like I have been used, and money certainly shows peoples true colours. May this be a lesson to everyone.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

Wow that blows.

Please show him this thread.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

I assume he wasn't that good of a friend, otherwise what a [censored].

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

Ansky

I will make sure he see's this thread, all I did was do the guy a favour. I have a feeling if I had won a smaller amount then there would have been no need for any of this

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

i think about 40% is right for you to get.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

35-50% seen fair in my mind. If a friend of me played for me,I would without a doubt give 50% but maybe I overvalue the meaning of being friends. in a business case I said 35%

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

[ QUOTE ]
I assume he wasn't that good of a friend, otherwise what a [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

Factors:

1. You did not pay for the tournament entry fee.
2. You did not discuss a % ahead of time.
3. He obviously didnt offer. Its an uncomfortable situation for BOTH of you.
4. You played the most difficult part of the tournament to get him there.

All things considered, $750 to $1000 is a good amount IMHO. More than that is not proper because you did not pay for any portion of the entry. Less than that is shorting you IMHO.

Nick

Nick

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

Thanks for everyones replies btw, appreciated

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

If you explained the specific circumstances of what happened to a cross section of those who are active in tournament backing, I believe that you would get a response that 20%-25% was fair for you to receive.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

i dont understand how you could do anything but split it 50/50, you guys are friends right? some of you people that say he deserves nothing are stingy bastards and probably don't possess any friends.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

I think we misunderstood your use of the word 'friends'. This dude was never your friend. He was just a slug who used you for your poker skills.

FWIW, I think it is very important to try to find a 'right' answer to these types of questions, especially when friends are involved. Especially if you are serious about your game. I compare it to many examples from real life. I have a real estate investment, when I was asking my friends to work on the house, I insisted they charge me their going rate. They, of course tried to refuse the money. But I explained, that if they were putting in windows at my home, I would be willing to accept their generous gift of their skills, but this wasnt my house, this was business. They werent doing me a favor, they were trying to hand me money.
If you dont make business, business, you are asking for trouble in the long term. Can you imagine how pissed my friends would be if they were constantly putting windows in my homes, and I was driving up to thank them in a Jag.

The point is, if you are really friends, and this is a one shot deal, the onus is on the original player to be overly generous for the sake of the friendship, and it is on the 2nd player to refuse the large gift. (just like the example above, with a single tournament being 'my home'). When it isnt a one shot deal, it really has to be looked at like a business, b/c that is what it is.

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

50/50 is the most fair. If I were in his position thats what I would do, why quibble over a few hundred when you would both be happy with $1500 each?

Re: Maybe slightly OT - $ share in MTT winnings
 

A Plus

very nice reply, thank you and I totally agree with what you have said