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-   -   Two Turn Checks vs. NemesisXX (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=394367)

Danenania 12-08-2005 06:24 PM

Two Turn Checks vs. NemesisXX
 
NemesisXX has been playing 10/20 6-max forever. Stats are 30/18. Postflop read is overaggro and pays off way too often. Grossly overplays TP/overpairs and bluffs a lot even in spots that look obvious (ie induced bluffs). Commonly 3-bets turn with A-high or a draw. Also calls rivers with A-high or worse in many spots where opponent clearly can't be bluffing. One thing I have never seen is a river bluffraise or 3-bet though neither would surprise me much. She's SB in both hands.

UTG in this one is very loose and passive.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (2.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>

MP here is loose and fairly aggro.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks.

Turn: (1.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks.

River: (1.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>

Edited to add reads for other opponents.

Spicymoose 12-08-2005 06:29 PM

Re: Two Turn Checks vs. NemesisXX
 
I like the first hand. I think he is probably folding to the turn bet a lot, and may will bluff the river a lot (along with getting the chance to improve to a second best).

I don't like the second hand. You are giving both him and MP a free card, when that could be very dangerous. What was your river plan? Raise any non scary card? What were you doing with a club, a king, or maybe some other card? I think you are missing out on too much by checking the turn here.

jba 12-08-2005 06:39 PM

Re: Two Turn Checks vs. NemesisXX
 
"You are giving both him and MP a free card, when that could be very dangerous."

how is it dangerous? the only better hand you can fold out is a naked K with 3 outs in a 1.5BB pot

it's true we might be losing value, but there's nothing dangerous there

OP: love hand 1, undecided on hand 2

Spicymoose 12-08-2005 07:01 PM

Re: Two Turn Checks vs. NemesisXX
 
Getting 2.5:1, flush draws don't have odds to call. Also, a weak 6 may have been scared to bet, and possibly even a weak 7.

intensify1 12-08-2005 07:31 PM

Re: Two Turn Checks vs. NemesisXX
 
I like hand one. Hand 2 is undecided only because of the MP limper. But given his play so far in this hand, I like the river play pretty well.

12-08-2005 08:00 PM

Re: Two Turn Checks vs. NemesisXX
 
these hands just turn me on period...
your getting PAAIDDD

Lmn55d 12-08-2005 08:01 PM

Re: Two Turn Checks vs. NemesisXX
 
1 is hot.

For 2, let me see if I can guess your reasoning. You don't bet flop because MP is loose and aggro and will often raise you with nothing or call.

You hit a Q sweet. You are wondering why the aggro MP didn't bet the flop and fear he might have an ace. If not there's a good chance he'll bluff it this time around. If you are ahead these guys are probably drawing pretty slim and the pot is small.

Nemesis bets the river. Hmm. I'm not exactly sure what he could have here. I don't think he would value bet a 6 or a 7 here. I think he would instead induce a bluff from the aggro button. I would also guess that he would bet a 6 or 7 on the flop or turn a lot (well I guess that's what I think a good player would do. Maybe not Nemesis...). Therefore I think his most likely hand is a bluff or an ace that went for a checkraise on the turn for some reason. Therefore I would call.

12-08-2005 08:01 PM

Re: Two Turn Checks vs. NemesisXX
 
I like giving a freebie here! hes betting his draw most of the time so you can RR him! the only real scare card is a K, ill take my chances knowing that I can have him put in 2 on El Rio

12-08-2005 08:03 PM

Re: Two Turn Checks vs. NemesisXX
 
let the 6 and 7 peel, their odds to hit are very very low, and the k is also drawing to 3, whats more is that the 6 and 7 are river calling you if u check the turn, because their unsure of what to put u on, surely not an ace...
your +ev on the check turn raise river line...especially with these reads on villans

jba 12-08-2005 08:18 PM

Re: Two Turn Checks vs. NemesisXX
 
[ QUOTE ]
Getting 2.5:1, flush draws don't have odds to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's pretty close considering they may have an over, implied odds, other person may call, etc. regardless, almost everyone with a flush draw is calling there, so it isn't "dangerous" in that you aren't risking much by giving a free card here

[ QUOTE ]
Also, a weak 6 may have been scared to bet, and possibly even a weak 7.

[/ QUOTE ]

still, giving five outs in a pot this small isn't exactly dangerous


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