AA , am i beat?
 

Seat 1: Villain ($39.30) tight/agg/agg, havent seen him get out of line all session
Seat 6: Hero ($23.20)

8 handed

big blind of $0.25


Dealt to hero [A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]


3 folds, hero raises to $0.85, 3 folds Villain calls $0.60 from BB



[8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]


Villain has 15 seconds left to act Villain bets $0.25
hero raises to $2 Villain raises to $38.45, and is all in
hero ..

Possible holdings are KQ,QJ,JJ,TT,99,88(unlikely but possibly KK) I know he sees me as a LAG, but he did give my raises respect, this was the first time he played back at me all night.

Re: AA , am i beat?
 

yeah you're beat.


fold.

Re: AA , am i beat?
 

fold. next time dont raise the flop. its WA/WB so keep the pot small.

paul

Re: AA , am i beat?
 

Why not raise more preflop?

Re: AA , am i beat?
 

Don't listen to the first reply. A raise here is definitely called for. You lost $2 to find out where you stand. If you had called he could have milked you for much more.

Re: AA , am i beat?
 

Yes you probably are beat. Raising this flop is correct. The only thing calling would do is give a smaller PP a chance to boat up before you knew where you stood. To the poster who feels this is a WA/WB situation (which of course it is) and wants to call to keep the pot small: how much are you willing to call on the turn and river? Presumably less than the $2 it costs to find out where you stand on the flop. Good chance it will cost you more than $2 to attempt to call down here and you will never know where you stand.

Re: AA , am i beat?
 

raising to find out where you are at is stupid. you can raise for value or you can raise to protect your hand, or both. if you raise here villain folds most of the hands you are beating, and calls/pushes with a boat/Q and occasionally pushes you out with a hand you beat. the best way to maximise value from the hands you beat is to call the flop. worrying about villain hitting a 2 outer is stupid. what i do on the turn/river would be opponent/card/bet size dependant.

paul

Re: AA , am i beat?
 

[ QUOTE ]
raising to find out where you are at is stupid. you can raise for value or you can raise to protect your hand, or both. if you raise here villain folds most of the hands you are beating, and calls/pushes with a boat/Q and occasionally pushes you out with a hand you beat. the best way to maximise value from the hands you beat is to call the flop. worrying about villain hitting a 2 outer is stupid. what i do on the turn/river would be opponent/card/bet size dependant.

paul

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AA , am i beat?
 

[ QUOTE ]
raising to find out where you are at is stupid. you can raise for value or you can raise to protect your hand, or both. if you raise here villain folds most of the hands you are beating, and calls/pushes with a boat/Q and occasionally pushes you out with a hand you beat. the best way to maximise value from the hands you beat is to call the flop. worrying about villain hitting a 2 outer is stupid. what i do on the turn/river would be opponent/card/bet size dependant.

paul

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. I presume you treat the minbet as if it were a check, so if he had checked you would check behind. How is this not a mistake? AA is a strong hand even against a paired board. You are currently just worried about a Queen (and yet not, because if he strongly represents the Queen, as he did, at these stakes you are likely folding fairly sharply). You are not just concerned about villain hitting a 2-outer to boat up his PP, you can also sit around while a JT, J9, 109 or some other crap make a straight, a backdoor flush comes home or any other random hand further weakens your AA. If you are calling with the intention of calling down all the way because you have somehow decided he doesn't have the Queen, fair enough, otherwise I don't see how you are making any more by waiting until the turn/river to make your decision on whether to fold or not.

Anyway IMO, this mini-debate is fairly moot. Either way I don't think we are willing to lose much with our AA's here whatever way we play them. Unless we hit our 2-outer this hand will be folded sooner or later if the TAG holding the Queen, or bluffing strongly, decides to start inflating the pot.

Re: AA , am i beat?
 

calling gives me no idea of where im at.