Top set on a 3 broadway board
 

$25 PL Omaha, 9 players
UTG $32.35
TAG $22.20
Hero $57.85
BUTTON $20.45

Hero dealt: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Preflop:
Blinds, UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, TAG calls $0.25, Hero raises $1.35, 2 folds, BUTTON calls, 2 folds, UTG calls, TAG calls

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (pot $5.50)
UTG checks
TAG bets $5.50
Hero calls $5.50
UTG, BUTTON fold

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (pot $16)
TAG is all-In for $15
Hero ???

Re: Top set on a 3 broadway board
 

If he is tight as you seem to describe (I think), then fold the flop. He is not going to pay you off if the board pairs so don't chase when he isn't offering you the proper odds

Re: Top set on a 3 broadway board
 

. . . folds since he is only getting 2-1 on his money and is a 4-1 dog to fill, maybe less since a TAG plays 4 good cards working together and most likely has at least one of hero's fill cards if not more. If your Ad had another diamond working with it then a call could be considered though still as a small dog, *IF* the opponent were not a TAG who wouldn't payoff and still had more money left, supplying implied odds. You should have folded the flop.

Re: Top set on a 3 broadway board
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he is tight as you seem to describe (I think), then fold the flop. He is not going to pay you off if the board pairs so don't chase when he isn't offering you the proper odds

[/ QUOTE ]

he's not that tight, probably semitight aggresive would be more accurate.
also he is very aggresive in a raised pot. so i'm thinking he could bet with two pair + flush draw or QQ

Re: Top set on a 3 broadway board
 

If that truly was your read then you should have set him in on the flop.

Re: Top set on a 3 broadway board
 

[ QUOTE ]
If that truly was your read then you should have set him in on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm only saying that its possible he could have those(or AT), and if he did have them he would most likely bet them. If i raise, he only calls if i'm beat and everyone else folds. i think calling the flop is best.

Re: Top set on a 3 broadway board
 

The key factor in this situation is the opponent's stack size which means you can never against any type opponent make any more when you improve on the river to make up for the times when you were in fact beat on the flop by a straight.

Re: Top set on a 3 broadway board
 

[ QUOTE ]
maybe less since a TAG plays 4 good cards working together and most likely has at least one of hero's fill cards if not more

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I know you said "MAYBE" and "1 or more" but I have to say this because I can't stand "X is probably not live" conjecture in this game

Personally, to prove my point I would never try to hypothesize which of my outs are dead. It's omaha man, people have a good shot at holding your outs all the time [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Like, I'm not trying to be an ass, but I could say

"on a board with 3 connectors and a 2 flush, people involved in the pot are actually less likely to hold fill cards, as it is unlikely they're staying in with hands such as two pair" (not that that's neccessarily unlikely, but I'm just giving an example of the thought processes people are detailing that are kind of a reach)

I just think it's bad 2+2 practice to make such hypotheses, no offense man [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

I mean why not go even broader in your assumptions of which cards are live : there's few people involved in the hand so I'm sure there's plenty of high cards left in the deck, many of which fill you [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Top set on a 3 broadway board
 

[ QUOTE ]
The key factor in this situation is the opponent's stack size which means you can never against any type opponent make any more when you improve on the river to make up for the times when you were in fact beat on the flop by a straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

i just can't help thinking i am losing money if i fold KKK on the flop everytime there is three broadway just because someone bets from EP with a normal stack. especially if there are more opponents behind me who could call and give me odds to beat a flopped straight

Re: Top set on a 3 broadway board
 

It is OK to bet your set, especially when it is short-handed, but to call or raise is just terrible. The main exception is when you have set+flush draw, then raise it up as you are nearly a 60% favorite.