88 in tricky positio
 

Im at work so I dont have the PT stuff.

UTG is the uberfish. 80% VPIP bets any pair on the flop. Only thinks about his hand.
BB is TAGish, some of his plays are questionable. Like calling down a fish that bets with just AQ.

UTG limps, I limp 8c8h, 2 fish limp, BB raises, all call.

FLOP: 5c 4c 5h

BB (TAG) bets UTG (uber fish) raises, my play with 2 people to go and a TAG betting into 3 fish and a TAG?

----------------------
Vs the TAG I figure very few hands he is beting here AcKc, or an overpair. Considering he raised from the BB and bet out into 4 callers behind.... The UTG raising concerned me. What do I do 3 bet it here and get capped by the TAG or someone else? Quite possible the 2 fish might had had some sort of draw with this flop and I would be facing whats in front and whats behind plopping 3 bets in the pot with so many ways to be behind. Ironically my instincts told me I was ahead because of how I saw the TAG and Uberfish play. But I won't tell you what I did or the results. Really was boggled by this one. Math said no, instincts said 3 bet.

Re: 88 in tricky positio
 

Yep, is sort of a tricky spot. I think it's a raise or fold decision here. Calling with a vulnerable hand when you have a perfect opportunity to protect, and possibly isolate, would be criminal, so I'm ruling out calling.

I think based on the read you've provided, "I figure very few hands he is betting here AcKc, or an overpair.", this is a clear fold. I think the reasons are obvious and elaborating any further is unnecessary . I'll just add that I think it's very likely your read is correct, given the size of field villain's betting into.

Re: 88 in tricky positio
 

Winky,

Raise preflop unless you hate money.

Threebet the flop.

Happy holidays,
einbert

Re: 88 in tricky positio
 

[ QUOTE ]
Im at work so I dont have the PT stuff.

UTG is the uberfish. 80% VPIP bets any pair on the flop. Only thinks about his hand.
BB is TAGish, some of his plays are questionable. Like calling down a fish that bets with just AQ.

UTG limps, I limp 8c8h

[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading here.... Why aren't you raising to isolate the fish here?

Re: 88 in tricky positio
 

Same reason you don't raise with 88 from EP. If I was MP and not UTG+1 I would

Re: 88 in tricky positio
 

Agree with the preflop advice to isolate bad player preflop.

With the line you took, I'm laying it down on the flop.

Re: 88 in tricky positio
 

Interesting the 2 points of view.

PF Raise iso fish. But normally you're not raising with 88 here anyways because its EP. Instead I call to lure more for the set. If I was MP1 I would raise definitely.

3 bet the flop or fold. I ended up folding since 2 left to act and most hands BB was betting were bigger pairs considering the field of 4. And uberfish could of had the 5. So 13sb and I have to pop in 3sb to see if I am ahead of a PF raiser, a fish raising, and 2 left to act which might have draws or the 5 itself since they are fish. If it was bet call that would be enough for me to raise there.

Re: 88 in tricky positio
 

Winky,

[ QUOTE ]
Same reason you don't raise with 88 from EP. If I was MP and not UTG+1 I would

[/ QUOTE ]
My default is to raise 88 UTG at a 10 handed table.

Happy holidays,
einbert

Re: 88 in tricky positio
 

[ QUOTE ]
My default is to raise 88 UTG at a 10 handed table.

[/ QUOTE ]
I do this without even thinking. Especially if there's one weak limper directly on my right.

Re: 88 in tricky positio
 

Raise pre-flop
3 bet the flop, If he is so terrible he is going to be raising alot of hands worse than 88 there. You have a big hand 3 bet to isolate that donkey.