Dates, dates
 

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German-legislated persecution of Jews, if not mass murder, began long long before 1939.

[/ QUOTE ] Legislated persecution, yes. Mass murder, no.

I had the opportunity to say this to someone else here, over an exchange of PMs : Even if "the cause is just", it does not pay (certainly not in our day and age) to lie or exaggerate about it, under no circumstances. What usually happens is that the lie and the exaggeration are unmasked and the oppositions grabs onto those and tries to bring down the whole cause. E.g. The Revisionists "prove" that "less than six million jews died" (e.g. 5.9 mln), ergo No Holocaust!

Back to the issue : The Nazis started passing anti-Jewish legislation and anti-many other things legislation as soon as Hitler became Chancellor. (Which does not register as "long long before" in my book but I won't quibble.) They did not start the mass murder until well into World War II, when they set up the camps inside Poland and the death machine cranked up also in Germany.

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The general consensus holds that the Holocaust began with the enactment of the Nuremberg laws, in 1935.

[/ QUOTE ] Nope, that is certainly not "the general consensus". The racial laws spawned the Holocaust but did not enact it. Historians trace the start of the crime even earlier, when Hitler outlined his sentiments (and hinted broadly at his intentions) in My Struggle.

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Of course, Jabotinsky was a Russian, so it's more likely his ideas came from somewhere else (hint: starts with "P" ends with "ogroms")

[/ QUOTE ] 0 points for this answer.

At the time of Jabotinsky, the Soviet Union was experiencing its more tolerant period, relatively speaking, as far as Jews were concerned. The persecutions at the top of the power echelon were not affecting the Jewish masses in the USSR. Anti-Jewish pogroms were a czarist specialty.

Jabotinsky did not need to have suffered any "real world traumas" to formulate his ideas -- an ideologue does not need any such, not necessarily. These are facile, American B-movie kind of "explanations" for men's actions or ideas. Jabotinsky found "cause" in Jewish history to formulate ideas such as his -- and, as to whether or not they were "correct", that is another subject.

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Given ultra-nationalist Europe and "Arabia" at the time, a Jewish nationalist movement was only to be expected!

[/ QUOTE ] True, true.

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[Reform Zionism] didn't ... enjoy any mainstream public support, until sometime around the end of the H[olocaust].

[/ QUOTE ]..which is around 1945. Which means Reform Zionism (a virulent, ultra-nationalist, intolerant and irredentist movement like Britain's BNP, France's National Front, etc) and its equally odious offshoots DID enjoy mainstream public support ever since Israel came to be!

We agree... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Zipo with breeches open
 

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[You are] hurling the "anti-semite" epithet against anyone who dares say something "bad" about Israel.

[/ QUOTE ]I proved conclusively that this assertion of yours is absolutely false.

[/ QUOTE ]For the moment, I will merely point out that you are claiming to have proved a negative.


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Document a post of mine in this thread where I brought up 'Israel'.

[/ QUOTE ] I have no idea what you're talking about. I did not "accuse" you of "bringing up Israel in this thread". For the record, I have not seen you bring up anything related to "Israel" in this thread. The fact that you abhor the Holocaust (as I do too), does not mean that you are a supporter of Israel (which I am not).

You come off as seriously confused.

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The comment you referenced was not a platitude ... If you have another example of a platitude, offer it.

[/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Thanks, that's all that's needed.

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Put up or shut up. ... Put up or shut up.

[/ QUOTE ] I realize you'd dearly want me to shut up (or go away, preferably [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]) but this is the trouble you get into when you get fuzzy with truth and logic.

Zip up and post away.

Re: Holocaust Denial
 

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The guy did his own research and backed up his claims with his own findings. I'd say anyone who prefers blindly believing the media vs. thinking for himself can't be a very good poker player.

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Yea, I have a regular revisionist/holocaust believer game every thursday. Some of the analytical revisionists are solid, only they tend to not to believe the strenght I represent. You should see the game on the anniversary of Kristallnacht, regular magoo fest.

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This is easily the best post in this thread.

Re: Zipo with breeches open
 

Well, it was fun for awhile making you chase your tail, but now your antics are just boring.

So, keep posting, We'll see if anyone keeps reading.

Re: M for Murder
 

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This concept of "war crimes" is a farce and just illustrates the pathological self-righteousness of America and other western powers who endorse it.

War is a state of affairs in which there are no rules -- anything goes, kill or be killed, use everthing you've got to destroy the enemy.


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You have no idea what you are talking about at all, do you?

Zipo fades out
 

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Your antics are just boring.

[/ QUOTE ]Was it the part where you I pointed out you're claiming to have proved a negative that turned you off? Or was it the part where you inadvertedly admitted your fondness for platitudes? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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We'll see if anyone keeps reading.

[/ QUOTE ]Another first in the annals of internet. Self-weighted threads! [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]