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-   -   i knew he was gonna do that (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=406135)

daryn 12-27-2005 07:56 PM

i knew he was gonna do that
 
just sat down, i folded for a few orbits then i raised a hand and took down the blinds.. i guess i have a tight image so far.

from what i've seen so far i'm positive that utg+2 is pretty fishy


PokerStars 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $30.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>...

what's your move and why? do we agree up to this point or would some of you have donked the turn

i knew MP2 was gonna raise.. bastard

Nomar 12-27-2005 08:04 PM

Re: i knew he was gonna do that
 
put in in the dumpster ...

MP guy has 1 pair beat, set or KQ ...

do you always cap this preflop ?

DcifrThs 12-27-2005 08:08 PM

Re: i knew he was gonna do that
 
[ QUOTE ]
put in in the dumpster ...

MP guy has 1 pair beat, set or KQ ...

do you always cap this preflop ?

[/ QUOTE ]

well if MP is good and realizes you may fold and he may be good then the fold is bad. id say thats very very unlikely given this board.

as to PF, yes. in this case, given the opener is a fish i cap this every time.

Barron

daryn 12-27-2005 08:31 PM

Re: i knew he was gonna do that
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
put in in the dumpster ...

MP guy has 1 pair beat, set or KQ ...

do you always cap this preflop ?

[/ QUOTE ]

well if MP is good and realizes you may fold and he may be good then the fold is bad. id say thats very very unlikely given this board.

as to PF, yes. in this case, given the opener is a fish i cap this every time.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]


that was EXACTLY what i was thinking... that MP realized the situation (that utg+2 was fishy) and raised to try to get me out

daryn 12-27-2005 08:31 PM

Re: i knew he was gonna do that
 
[ QUOTE ]
put in in the dumpster ...

MP guy has 1 pair beat, set or KQ ...

do you always cap this preflop ?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah man.. you got a fish opening with what could be anything, and a guy who presumably knows that 3-betting the fish... i'm capping with AK every time and possibly with 99

Nomar 12-27-2005 08:36 PM

Re: i knew he was gonna do that
 
I cap sometimes, I call sometimes, I dont know what is right, I just hate leading that flop when I miss, I am always working on my AK play, trying to limit to number of times I overplay it per day to 25.

Fianchetto 12-27-2005 08:40 PM

Re: i knew he was gonna do that
 
Any merit to checking this flop?

You are out of position against 2 opponents, and with that board (3 cards in playing zone) I don't think you are taking this down with a flop bet. In fact, you will be getting raised a lot of the time.

Cap pre, check and call flop, donk turn... just a thought.

daryn 12-27-2005 08:40 PM

Re: i knew he was gonna do that
 
[ QUOTE ]
I cap sometimes, I call sometimes, I dont know what is right, I just hate leading that flop when I miss, I am always working on my AK play, trying to limit to number of times I overplay it per day to 25.

[/ QUOTE ]

i understand your thought.. but if you think about MP's range you will realize it's totally correct to cap

Joe Tall 12-29-2005 10:27 AM

Re: i knew he was gonna do that
 
[ QUOTE ]
i understand your thought.. but if you think about MP's range you will realize it's totally correct to cap

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but I'd sure like to cap with position here as I like my realtive position to MP3 as I can c/r the loosey out. I just love betting out on turns like this to squeeze here.

Yeti 12-29-2005 11:36 AM

Re: i knew he was gonna do that
 
Bet the turn and hope UTG+2 forces out MP.

SLEEPER 12-29-2005 01:49 PM

Re: i knew he was gonna do that
 
Assuming MP is not going to isolate with just anything..... what hands would he reraise that you beat at this point?

AK,AQ,A10,JJ,99 and 88. Is this player going to go crazy with any of those pairs? I would think that our hand is no good at this point, however, we could have correct odds to see a J/A/K.....

I would normally check/call this flop (assuming it is not 2 bets to me), and then check/fold this turn....

12-29-2005 04:43 PM

Re: i knew he was gonna do that
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
put in in the dumpster ...

MP guy has 1 pair beat, set or KQ ...

do you always cap this preflop ?

[/ QUOTE ]

well if MP is good and realizes you may fold and he may be good then the fold is bad. id say thats very very unlikely given this board.

as to PF, yes. in this case, given the opener is a fish i cap this every time.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]


that was EXACTLY what i was thinking... that MP realized the situation (that utg+2 was fishy) and raised to try to get me out

[/ QUOTE ]
PREFLOP: I thought your preflop play was fine. I too would cap here.

FLOP: I usually would lead this flop for those rare times I can induce someone to fold a hand like 88,99. And there is a small chance you may have the best hand even on that action flop. If youre against AJ&amp;KJ or AK&amp;AJ or AK&amp;KJ, in all 3 scenarios you have the best hand or you are tied with the best hand. I realize that the probability of you having the best hand is very low, but nonetheless still something I factor into my decision to bet this flop. Since I have to call anyways, betting the flop can only cost me 1 small bet at most if it gets raised, I dont mind this cost if the aggressive initiative can possibly be an advantage. That said I also dont think checking this flop is a bad idea either. I think its very close between checking or betting this flop, but I would bet for the reasons I mentioned above.

TURN: I really think you made a mistake here. Once you hit your card, you need to donk this turn. On that board your hand is not strong enough to consider checkraising. It is better to bet here and hope the guy on your left will raise with a lesser hand to protect your hand the times it is good. So I strongly favor the bet call line in this spot. Not only is this line strategically best IMO, you will also be able to avoid uncomfortable situations like the one you encountered after you checked the turn. Given that you did check the turn, I would fold to the raise.

Black Peter 12-30-2005 03:23 AM

Re: i knew he was gonna do that
 
Pre-flop - Knowing the situation/fish, i have no problem with your capping here. However, i might have called to see if fish will cap it or just call. I'm not as comfortable with AKo out of position and i'd like more info from fishboy. That may be the wrong advice, but like i said, i'm not as comfortable with AKo out of position in limit games. I mostly play NL.

Flop - Good bet. MP2's call is good info. He's knows fish is squirrelly but doesn't re-raise.

Turn - I'd bet here every time. You got your card. You're not strong enuf to c/r, imo, and look at the situation you got yourself into being out of position.


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