AKs and an unorthodox play
 

Villain hadn't done anything terrible that has made me classify him as an idiot. By the same token though, he doesn't impress me by any means. I have never played a hand this way before, but for some reason decided too. What do you guys think about this line?

Party Poker 10.00/20.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(5 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, UTG calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10.00 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Button folds, Hero calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises....</font>

Re: AKs and an unorthodox play
 

Against an unknown I typically 3-bet the turn and lead river, call down if raised. The problem with waiting till the river is that free showdown raises and draws are going to check behind. I'm sure there is a time for this line, say when he might have folded to your turn 3-bet or not paid off the river but I think otherwise it misses value.

Re: AKs and an unorthodox play
 

i dont see any specific merits here over the 3-bet turn, lead river line. except possibly giving him the chance to bluff out the river(?).

Re: AKs and an unorthodox play
 

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Against an unknown I typically 3-bet the turn and lead river, call down if raised. The problem with waiting till the river is that free showdown raises and draws are going to check behind

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I agree with that, except an unpaired, nonace-high flush draw is often bluffing the river but this doesn't make a difference since he would have put in a 3rd bet on the turn anyway.

Re: AKs and an unorthodox play
 

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Against an unknown I typically 3-bet the turn and lead river, call down if raised. The problem with waiting till the river is that free showdown raises and draws are going to check behind

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I agree with that, except an unpaired, nonace-high flush draw is often bluffing the river but this doesn't make a difference since he would have put in a 3rd bet on the turn anyway.

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If an unpaired nonace-high flush draw is going to raise the turn and bluff the river but he'll fold the river UI when you 3-bet, you make less money 3-betting the turn?

I've started donking the river on hands like this trying to get 1 more BB out of the free showdown raises, dunno if that's correct or not.

Re: AKs and an unorthodox play
 

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If an unpaired nonace-high flush draw is going to raise the turn and bluff the river but he'll fold the river UI when you 3-bet, you make less money 3-betting the turn?

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If you 3bet and he folds the river when he misses he puts in 3 bets on the turn and river combined.

If you call the turn and he bluffs when he misses he puts 3 bets in on the turn and river combined.

It's the same. Except that he is sometimes going to hit on the river and his bet will be a value bet which is an argument for 3betting the turn.

Re: AKs and an unorthodox play
 

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If an unpaired nonace-high flush draw is going to raise the turn and bluff the river but he'll fold the river UI when you 3-bet, you make less money 3-betting the turn?

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If you 3bet and he folds the river when he misses he puts in 3 bets on the turn and river combined.

If you call the turn and he bluffs when he misses he puts 3 bets in on the turn and river combined.

It's the same. Except that he is sometimes going to hit on the river and his bet will be a value bet which is an argument for 3betting the turn.

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If you know he's going to bluff the river when his draw doesn't hit, you're making 3BB - .6. If you 3-bet the turn and he folds the river UI with a flush draw you're making the same only you'll either bet/fold or bet/call the river. Either way his contribution is the same, but you win the same and lose less if you just call the turn raise. Isn't this right?

Re: AKs and an unorthodox play
 

ok I think I see your point. If his range is ONLY flush draws and we know he will bluff the river 100% of the time when he misses, we should call the turn raise and check/call a nonspade river and check/fold the rest. That is true.

EDIT: Wait. No it's not...why wouldn't we just 3bet the turn and check/call a nonspade river and check/fold a spade. Wouldn't he bluff here too if he'd bluff 100% in the other situaiton? lol. We'd make more this way.

Re: AKs and an unorthodox play
 

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ok I think I see your point. If his range is ONLY flush draws and we know he will bluff the river 100% of the time when he misses, we should call the turn raise and check/call a nonspade river and check/fold the rest. That is true.

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He'll never be on the flush draw 100% of the time though, so maybe that's all crap. That's why I figured donking the river after calling the turn raise was a pretty good medium between free showdowns, weaker kings, and the flush draw. mebbe

man, I dunno if he'll bluff a non-spade river if you 3-bet, that line is so bizarro

Re: AKs and an unorthodox play
 

uh if his range is free showdowns, weaker kigns, and flush draws, 3betting the turn and leading the river is way better. Especially considering most guys who make a "free" showdown raise don't fold to the river donk or turn 3bet.