Two pair in danger
 

The guy who bets the turn is a maniac. I saw him doing crazy things with nothing several times.

On the flop I do not see any way to protect my hand, I decidet to raise a safe turn...

What do you thing abou this play?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds</font>, MP3 calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, [color=#CC3333]MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

Re: Two pair in danger
 

raise your hand for value on the flop. protection = value.

Re: Two pair in danger
 

terrible.... raise the flop

Re: Two pair in danger
 

What are we protecting ourselves from here? The board is quite full of draws, and the flush draw is never folding. So let's get our value bets in now eh?

And it is impossible to protect with your position, villains will only be facing one bet.

Re: Two pair in danger
 

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raise your hand for value on the flop. protection = value.

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I guess protect here is to face somebody with 2 bets. Cannot do it on the flop.

Re: Two pair in danger
 

Raise the flop. Hand plays differently after that.

Turn and riv call OK.

Re: Two pair in danger
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise your hand for value on the flop. protection = value.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess protect here is to face somebody with 2 bets. Cannot do it on the flop.

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total misapplication of theory.

your saying you want to get to a position where players well behind will fold worse hands than your own.

In fact to maximise ev you want them to call with these hands (you gain when your opponent plays differently to how he would if he could see your cards) so that you can get the most money from them when you have a high pot equity.

think about it.

lets say you have AK and your opponent has AQ, the flop is A 4 J.
do you want to protect your hand and make them fold? or do you want them to call you to the river?

run that simulation a million times, half with them folding the flop, the other half with them calling down. which half do you think will make more $$ for you? which half will win more pots? notice how you get different answers?

go read Small Stakes Holdem by Ed Miller.

Re: Two pair in danger
 

Hi!

I have a question about your play of such a hand if the flop action was a little different:

If it had been check and bet, would it be an easy raise? You wouldn't fold a flush-draw with it, given passive players also probably not an ace that you want to pay you off. So protection-wise it still fails.
But if then both opponents check to you on that same turn. Would you bet for a free showdown + some fold equity or would you check behind and fold the river when it is raised in front of you or overcall if it is a bet and a call? Or do you think you could then bet this turn for value?
I am always puzzled about estimating the percentages of having the best hand.

Regards,

G.

Re: Two pair in danger
 

err... you replied to me... not sure if intended, but ill have a go anyway

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If it had been check and bet, would it be an easy raise? You wouldn't fold a flush-draw with it, given passive players also probably not an ace that you want to pay you off. So protection-wise it still fails.

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protection doesnt seem very important. like i said, i bet and hope they call. though the raise would be even easier with check bet as i guess it would increase the first players mistake if he coldcalled with less than he was getting odds for?

[ QUOTE ]
But if then both opponents check to you on that same turn. Would you bet for a free showdown + some fold equity or would you check behind and fold the river when it is raised in front of you or overcall if it is a bet and a call? Or do you think you could then bet this turn for value?

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all these are reasons for betting the turn. basically when all factors point to yes, why even consider no?



[/ QUOTE ]I am always puzzled about estimating the percentages of having the best hand.[ QUOTE ]


arent we all? hell if i had any idea i wouldnt be playing at ML. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Two pair in danger
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise your hand for value on the flop. protection = value.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess protect here is to face somebody with 2 bets. Cannot do it on the flop.

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If you're not raising here why bother calling. Like others have said this flop was not only about protecting your hand its also about betting for value.

Not raising here is playing scared poker.