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- - QQ hand (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=380024)

from tonight's stars $3r.
thoughts on all streets, esp. turn and river. should i be worried about the jack on the turn?
what about the river? it's a donk bet by him... does he do it with a jack? is a raise a bad idea?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP3 (t39295)
CO (t17700)
Button (t16375)
SB (t13730)
BB (t15800)
UTG (t30355)
UTG+1 (t15115)
Hero (t21555)
MP2 (t14995)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t800, UTG+1 calls t800, Hero raises to t2600, 6 folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t1800.

Flop: (t6175) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets t3500, UTG+1 calls t3500.

Turn: (t13175) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (t13175) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets t1200, Hero calls t1200.

Final Pot: t15575

Call.

You may have induced a weak bluff.

Nothing you beat is calling your raise.

Regards,
Woodguy

I'm betting more on the flop here.

An easy call on the river.

He might donk the river with a Jack, but he'll also do it with all sorts of other junk you beat, and is unlikely to pay you off, so just call.

Preflop is good, flop bet is fine, I'd probably go to 4000, just because I don't like odd numbers. (???)

Turn check-behind is the scaredy-cat thing to do... and the smart thing to do after he called that large flop bet.

Very well played.

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing you beat is calling your raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't think so either which is why I called.

I bet slightly less than I might on the flop to get action, assuming I was good. (I now realize the draws are getting decent odds and I can probably raise more PF too.)

He turned over 66. (I asked about the river raise mostly because of this, wondering how often he'll pay me off with this kind of holding. I see minbets in these spots with small/medium pairs more and more lately which weighed me towards him having one.)

Thanks for the help and words.

[ QUOTE ]
....Preflop is good, flop bet is fine...

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who doesn't agree? With two limpers the pot is 2,650 and by raising to 2,600 only, I'm giving UTG almost 3:1 on his call. If UTG calls (which he didn't, granted), UTG+1 has close to infinity:1.

I would raise to 3,500 or thereabouts

Raise more pre flop to stop UTG calling (which they should have done really).
Otherwise it all looks fine. On the river if you raise they are either folding or beating you so the call is correct.

[ QUOTE ]

He turned over 66. (I asked about the river raise mostly because of this, wondering how often he'll pay me off with this kind of holding. I see minbets in these spots with small/medium pairs more and more lately which weighed me towards him having one.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I should have prefaced my advice by mentioning that making good value bets on the river is one of the weakest parts of my game. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I don't know if he pays off a river raise, its good you got more out of him with the turn check though.

Regards,
Woodguy

[ QUOTE ]
I should have prefaced my advice by mentioning that making good value bets on the river is one of the weakest parts of my game. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha, me too, but I'm getting better.
I don't think he calls because my reraise preflop and my actions postflop almost certainly indicate a better hand than his. However, it's a Stars $3r. Not exactly donk-free and many people will take their mid pairs to the felt. "Hmm... there are two jacks on board, so he probably doesn't have one. I call. Damn, I put you on AK."

I really don't mind the size of the flop bet. You could go a bit higher, but with QQ you do want SOME action. The problem I have is the free card you gave on the turn. I think he plays AKspades the same exact way. (in fact, that is exactly what I thought he had until I read your results) I would be fearful of giving him a free card to potentially 15 outs. I would bet 5000-7000 on the turn.

As for the call on the river. No brainer. You really can't raise, becuase you give him the chance to bluff you out off the hand. I guess you could have pushed on the RIver, but that does not get you any more chips as you will only get called by hands that beat you. No way I fold for only 1200 more. Easy call.

As for his 66, well all I can say, is god bless him and thank god for players like him! :-)