river fold
 

Online 1/2. Good, loose-passive game.

Three limpers to me in the CO, including player to my immediate right (IR). He's a decent player, and a tad aggressive (the only other aggressive player in the game, in fact). I raise with KsJs. BB calls, limpers call. 5 to the flop:

Flop is AJ3 rainbow (one spade). Checked to IR who bets, I raise. Folded around to IR, who calls.

Turn is an 8, completing the rainbow (so much for my draws). Check, bet, call.

River is another ace, for a final board of AJ83A. IR bets, I fold.

Let me have it. I'll post my thoughts in a little while.

Re: river fold
 

IR is almost certainly betting with a pair of Aces. I would call his flop bet and fold to a turn bet if I didn't improve.

-- Homer

Re: river fold
 

Preflop is good.

Raise on the flop is misguided. You are most likely behind but you have some potential outs. Additionally if you hit your outs you want as many players in as possible. You risked more of your money and yet probably built a smaller pot.

No real value in the raise for a free card. No real value in the raise to steal the pot outright.

Re: river fold
 

I think I'm with Homer on this one ... you should probably fold on the turn.

However, since you called the turn and an Ace comes on the river, which helps you if anything, I think you have to call the river bet as well unless you know this guy would never bet here with less than top pair.

Re: river fold
 

"IR is almost certainly betting with a pair of Aces. I would call his flop bet and fold to a turn bet if I didn't improve."

--What you describe is my default play in this situation... Probably about 70%. I don't have any specific reason for the flop raise on this particular occasion other than that I was feeling surly.

Re: river fold
 

"However, since you called the turn and an Ace comes on the river, which helps you if anything, I think you have to call the river bet as well unless you know this guy would never bet here with less than top pair."

--Actually, I bet the turn. And I raised the flop. And I raised preflop.

And despite all of that aggression, he felt the need to bet the river. This is why I didn't think he expected or wanted me to fold.

Re: river fold
 

i may have checked behind on the turn here. you got your free card. it may also induce a bluff on the river.

b

Re: river fold
 

The Ace on the river made your hand STRONGER since that's one less Ace he can have in his hand. If HE has a weak Ace, than that same Ace made HIS hand stronger as well for the same reason. It also made his J "better" since that's one less Ace YOU can have.

Also, may bad players may believe they "just made AcesUp" and think they actually improved their little pair.

All-in-all the river was neutral. So you have no particular reason to fold unless this particular "aggressive" player plays pretty predicatably on the end.

- Louie

Re: river fold
 

hi marbles
you know what? i'm going to probably be the lone dissenter here, but i like the fold. the pot isn't large and it looks like your opponent has kicker problems here. but wait....no, the pot is large here. hmm....i still like the fold. never make this a habit though. one reason i like the fold, the reason that makes the decision pretty clear to me, is that your opponent expects you to call. i just don't think you win often enough here to justify a call. but i want to add in a reminder here, and it could be important. if you need to freshen up your grit; if you're not perceived as being weak, but you also haven't made a tough call in a while, just casually make the call. but if your image as being an opponent who makes tough calls is still fresh in your opponents minds, then fold like you got caught bluffing. i do like the fold here as long as it isn't on the heels of a similar type fold.

Re: river fold
 

I haven't read any other posts or the results but that is a suicidal fold.