I see your vision mama, I put my money on the longshots--
 

All my ballers that's born to clock

Found myself in a difficult position on this one, thought I would post it.

Home game $7.50-$15.00 ($2.50 chips with a 2/3 blind structure). Great game, but a little deceptive. Very California-esque in that it appears loose and wild with lots of loose players, but they can be quite tricky at times.

I’m in the small 3 people limp, a raise, and I call four more chips with pocket deuces, big blind calls as do all the limpers. So there is 30 chips( $75 American) in the pot.

Flop comes
2 – 3 – 10 with 2 clubs.

I bet, BaltimoreRon raises, there’s a call, and a raise from the pfr, folded to me and I cap, and we see the turn four handed for four bets each.

A note on the PFR is probably worthy at this point. PFR has a wild-loose crazy image, but I’ve learned better. He is impossible to put on a hand, but has very good card reading abilities (especially of players like me). He has no problem calling raises cold with any two cards, but plays post-flop very well. Also, his post-flop play is very player dependant.

Turn is an offsuit Jack. I bet out (may have smoke bet), Ron calls, and pfr raises. Ron and I call. I forgot exactly how we lost the fourth guy. I thought there was a very good chance I was behind the pfr, and put Ron square on the draw.

River puts up a non-pairing club…The dreaded flush draw has gotten there. I check. Ron bets six chips and says “F*** you guys”, very acceptable at this game (I’ve said much worse). Now usually I would make the crying call, but here’s the rub. PFR raises it all in to seven chips (17.50), this gives Ron the option of completing to 12 chips ($30). I ask the house to clarify the rule (I will call seven, but fear 12 chips, then again, I can’t see calling seven and then folding for five more), and they explain that Ron has the option to complete. I fold.

Comments on all streets appreciated. Also, is this a standard rule?


-Huh

Re: I see your vision mama, I put my money on the longshots--
 

WOuld be easier to give a comment if you told me, what hand you had?!? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: I see your vision mama, I put my money on the longshots--
 

First off, I didn't see what hand you had, so it's kind of hard to evaluate your play on each street. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Secondly, generally the rule regarding all-in raises is that if the raise is less than half of an actual bet, it technically acts like a call. This may vary by cardroom, but in my experience this is the way it is.

What this means is that you have the option of calling the 7 chips or raising to 12 chips. (Some casinos may vary the amount you can raise here to 13 chips--the bet+the all-in raise+another bet.)

If you call the 7 chips, the typical casino rule is that Ron cannot "complete" to 12 chips. He can call the all-in raise. He can't re-raise because the all-in raise was less than 1/2 a bet--that would be like raising himself.

Re: I see your vision mama, I put my money on the longshots--
 

Sory, I've edited the post had 22.

Re: I see your vision mama, I put my money on the longshots--
 

I think it's pretty amazing that i was actrually listening to that song when i loaded the page and i see this on top. Awesome, now i'm going to read the post and reply

Re: I see your vision mama, I put my money on the longshots--
 

My thoughts. (Keep in mind I usually play low limits, so they may not be worth much.)

Preflop: It's close, but I would lean towards folding. However, you are getting like 6.7 to 1 if the BB calls and all limpers call, so this one might be close.

Flop: Good. Bet/raise/reraise until the cows come home, but you knew that. Make them pay for their draws, as right now your hand is g00t.

Turn: Ron's calling your bet makes me think he may have been on a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] draw on the flop, though he may have AT--something worse than your set of 2s.

3-bet for sure. Unless PFR has exactly TT or JJ, you're still in front, and it looks like he's pushing an overpair to me. If you 3-bet, you really get a ton of information based on whether he calls or caps.

River: The pot is huge--I count 6 BB preflop, 8 BB on the flop, 6 BB on the turn, and another 2 on the river when it's on you. You should be calling 2 bets here for sure with your set--folding was disastrously incorrect.

Comments on my comments welcome/appreciated. There may be stuff going on here that is just plain over my head, so go easy on me. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: I see your vision mama, I put my money on the longshots--
 

Much better! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Ok, I don't know what I shall think about the preflop call, but I think it's allright, as you can easily fold, if you miss. However although I'm sure, the price is a bit too high.

Flop: Good play, even if you flop a set, with two clubs on the board, I would also bet right out and cap it if possible.

Turn: Although there may be several draws outside, I would be pretty sure to hold the best hand. And thatfore you need to charge them as much as possible for their draws, so I'd three-bet the turn with my trips. The only hands you could be behind are other set!

River: First, usually it needs at least a half bet for someone going all-in, that it counts as full bet. I think I'd fold for two bets, but also made the crying call for one. I am pretty sure the all-in guy has made his flush.

So as closure I think you played it fine, apart from the turn, where I put in another raise. Results?

Re: I see your vision mama, I put my money on the longshots--
 

Easy call preflop, 3 bet the Turn, I would have bet the river and the probably folded to a raise.
Usually the bet has to be at least 1/2 a BB to raise.

Re: I see your vision mama, I put my money on the longshots--
 

I'm semi-bumping this one because I want to see what other people think about it. Also, I'm going through the trouble of posting the hand in a more readable format. Obviously I'm making up suits for specific cards, extrapolating some action, and making up the river card's rank.

Huh has 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and is the SB.

Preflop:
3 limpers, PFR raises, Huh semi-coldcalls, BB calls, 3 limpers call.

Flop (6 BB): 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Huh bets, BaltimoreRon (previously a PF limper) raises, Limper2 calls, Limper3 folds, PFR 3-bets, Huh caps, BaltimoreRon calls, Limper1 calls, PFR calls.

Turn (14 BB): J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Huh bets, BaltimoreRon calls, Limper3 folds, PFR raises, Huh calls, BaltimoreRon calls.

River (20 BB): 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Huh checks, BaltimoreRon bets, PFR raises all-in (giving BaltimoreRon the option to re-raise to a full 2 bets), Huh folds, BaltimoreRon calls.

Reall, does anyone advocate folding the river here, even in the face of 2 bets, in a 20+ BB pot?

You're getting over 10:1 to call here on the end--I can't believe anyone is seriously advocating folding. Thoughts?

Re: I see your vision mama, I put my money on the longshots--
 

wassup man. happy birthday!

to me, the real question is, is PFR going to rebuy? because if he's busted out and going home, then he's probably raising to get rid of his chips. in that case I am definitely calling and crying.

I really hate overcalling here, because it's ugly, but I would do it almost every time.

--turnipmonster