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-   -   Blind steal turned draw (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=407534)

Isura 12-30-2005 01:27 AM

Blind steal turned draw
 
Villain is a habitual blind stealer, but seems sensible postflop. He is rather aggressive. I haven't been defending my blinds too much, so I expected preflop to be an easy resteal spot. Villain is button and I'm in the SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. 1/2 blinds with $200 stacks.

Preflop: Button (villain) opens for $7, I reraise to $17, BB folds, villain calls.

Flop ($36): Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I check, villain bets $20, I call.

Turn ($76): J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I check, villain checks.

River ($76): T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I check, villain bets $40, I fold.

It feels like I misplayed every street postflop.

12-30-2005 01:34 AM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
y reraise preflop if u dont plan on leading the flop

i would bet this flop 1/2 2/3 of the pot

then on turn bet 2/3 or pot

now maybe this guy will easy off your blinds

ansky451 12-30-2005 01:34 AM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
Why would you ever reraise this preflop, then not follow up with a bet on basically every flop- let alone a flop in which you made a draw.

It looks like you had a little hiccup of aggression for the preflop, then went into a shell for the rest of the hand. Raise more preflop if you are going to play this crap, then bet the flop hard.

BobboFitos 12-30-2005 01:38 AM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
Even vs a blind stealer... Fold KJo.

12-30-2005 01:42 AM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
KJo is pretty nasty, and its likely fold > raise > call, but once you decided to go with the raise given your read and whatnot, you absolutely have to lead this flop.

soah 12-30-2005 01:52 AM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
[ QUOTE ]
It feels like I misplayed every street postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea why you included "postflop" in that sentence.

xorbie 12-30-2005 02:05 AM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
make it 21 at least preflop. pot the flop.

FreakDaddy 12-30-2005 03:15 AM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
My favorite line against these "types" of opponents OOP is check/call the flop, lead the turn for 3/4 - full pot size. It works a lot. If you happened to be called, you can check the river and usually expect a check behind as well.

If you plan on staying on this table for a while the re-rasie with KJ is good imo. You're letting him know you'll mix it up and he can't continue to raise you, but even more important, you can do this when you catch a really good hand and use it later. Honestly I do this every so often with almost any two from the blinds and then show, but you have to plan on using it later or it's just not worth it online.

Fish1000 12-30-2005 03:52 AM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
[ QUOTE ]

i would bet this flop 1/2 2/3


[/ QUOTE ] Betting only half the pot indicates weakness after a preflop raise. At least 2/3 or PSB. Preflop raise with KJo is weak. If so, however, make it 21.

SmileyEH 12-30-2005 05:21 AM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
Raise more preflop, bet the flop. Go from there. I sure hope you play AA this way sometimes, if this is how you resteal.

-SmileyEH

ludo72 12-30-2005 08:03 AM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
I think raising pre-flop is fine, but make it atleast $21-24. Make a normal continuation bet and if he raises you can either push or call as I doubt he's making a real raise here.

12-30-2005 11:15 AM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
Oh dear, did you ever. Villain seems sensible on the flop, but that doesn't mean that you can' represent AQ or KQ here and take it down. Villain's bet of 20 into 36 communicates something along the lines of "oh [censored], someone is finally playing back at me." Maybe he has 99 or A10, but he's worried. So, if you are going to check, it better be a check-raise. I would have bet out the pot here and taken it down.

By just smoothing calling the flop, you put yourself in the position where a check on the turn and a fold on the river are not horrible. You're out of position at this point and it's surely possible that villain's bet of 20 was a semi-bluff with a 9. If you were feeling adventurous and you thought that villain is capable of making the lay down, you could represent that you were chasing the straight OR that you had something very strong like QJ and was just slowplaying. You could bet out the pot, try to take it down. I don't love this line, but assuming your opponent doesn't have a 9, it's reasonable. IMO, checking is just fine here.

I think after checking the turn, a bet on the river of anything looks too weak or too strong. I don't mind your check on the river.

swolfe 12-30-2005 11:40 AM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
continuation bet!

Isura 12-30-2005 11:42 AM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
Thanks for the comments guys. So, as played, it's between check/call lead turn and check/raise flop right? If he calls a pot-sized check/raise on the flop, how do we handle a missed turn. What about when we spike a pair? I kinda like the check/call flop, lead turn idea. But I guess it depends on whether villain reads the stop-n-go as a strong hand or a bluff stopper. Sometimes I check/call flop and check/raise allin on the turn. That's how I would usually play AA or a set against an overaggro opponent.

Ghazban 12-30-2005 11:48 AM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
The worst thing you did this hand was the tiny preflop reraise. You have zero folding equity with that. Generally, I like to reraise pot if I reraise preflop but I'll reraise slightly larger in a blind stealing situation because the opponent will be more likely to take a flop with a wide variety of hands because he has position and his hand will be hard to read. A larger reraise discourages this.

cbloom 12-30-2005 01:24 PM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
I'm curious what you all suggest if he raised more preflop, bets 3/4 pot on the flop, and villain just calls, the turn is a blank. Now what?

AdamBragar 12-30-2005 03:10 PM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
It's ok to fold to a raise here and it's also ok to call a raise with KJ and let the hand develop on the flop. Once you are reraising, you better be willing to do some crazy [censored] postflop. Pretty much any time I reraise from the BB, whether I hold QQ-AA or hold suited connectors or anything else, I'm thinking to myself, there's a good chance I want to push this hand. So then, when I reraise with QQ-AA I'm getting a bunch of action.

So I don't like reraising with KJ because let's say the flop is Kxx then you're like, sweet, I've flopped top pair, but now you want to see a showdown and not necessarily play a huge pot cause the villain might have KQ or AK. Anyway...

Flop is pretty nice for you. A few ways I see playing out this hand.

1) Bet 35 on the flop. If he calls, look to checkraise all in on the turn.

2) Checkraise all in on the flop

3) Check/call the flop isn't so terrible. I'd do this with QQ-AA and if I reraised with 9Jsuited. But I'd open push the turn.

ansky451 12-30-2005 04:10 PM

Re: Blind steal turned draw
 
LEAD.


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