I felt dirty...yet good
 

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG was 48/2/1.7 over 42 hands. SB's 27/5.3/.55 over 150.

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

<font color="blue">So I've got this fish with the goofy LRR and a scary damned board. Easy fold?</font>

Turn: (6 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (12 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 18 BB

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

I dunno, I think I just let it go on the flop with dirty outs, a coordinated board and passive preflop player (albeit over a small number of hands) LRRing. Nothing funner than runner runner though.

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

Flop call can't be that bad because I never know what a Limp Reraise means. Sometimes its AA, other times its K7s.

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

Had I been in position, I'd probabaly have capped that LRR. Otherwise, this looks good to me.

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

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Flop call can't be that bad because I never know what a Limp Reraise means. Sometimes its AA, other times its K7s.

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Unless the LRR'er is a LAG or maniac (which this guy hasn't looked like so far), it's almost always at least AK/QQ. At least, in my experience. In this instance, if the LRR'er was a TAG and had a read on Hero as TAG, too, it could be a medium pocket pair trying to isolate &amp; create some dead money.

But seriously, this is almost always a big hand. And a pretty easy flop fold.

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

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But seriously, this is almost always a big hand.

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No way. Not from someone with a VPIP of 50.

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

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But seriously, this is almost always a big hand.

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No way. Not from someone with a VPIP of 50.

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Harv may have a point though, his PFR is only 2. Although it is a teeny sample.

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

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But seriously, this is almost always a big hand.

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No way. Not from someone with a VPIP of 50.

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Harv may have a point though, his PFR is only 2. Although it is a teeny sample.

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But we gotta take in consideration of the "I'm pissed that you raised so I'll 3-bet" factor.

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

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But seriously, this is almost always a big hand.

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No way. Not from someone with a VPIP of 50.

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Harv may have a point though, his PFR is only 2. Although it is a teeny sample.

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But we gotta take in consideration of the "I'm pissed that you raised so I'll 3-bet" factor.

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Yup, which is why I end up capping a lot.

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

That and the fact that it is an UTG LRR makes me more inclined to believe it, but I still expect garbage at least 1/3 of the time.

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

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But seriously, this is almost always a big hand.

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No way. Not from someone with a VPIP of 50.

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Harv may have a point though, his PFR is only 2. Although it is a teeny sample.

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I had no specific reads on that guy, but I have to admit I was with Harv...I was leaning towards AA/KK--and that makes it a really dumb flop call. But a little part of me said, "small sample...you never know what these LRRs mean."

Turns out the guy had AKh...ouch for him.

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

Maybe if we pooled our databases and see who LRRs what.

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

My findings.

I wish I had written down positions too, but the sample size would have been quite small for that.

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

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But seriously, this is almost always a big hand.

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No way. Not from someone with a VPIP of 50.

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A loose/passive is even more likely to attempt a LRR here with a big hand. Why? Because he sucks at poker.

Seriously, though, it could be BS (last night I had a guy who I'd seen PFR once in 50+ hands open from UTG with 36s against me, and ruin my day when he turned a straight vs. my TPTK), but in my experience almost every single time, especially vs. loose, bad players, it's legit. He saw the LRR on tv once and thought it looked cool, so now he does it every time he's got aces.

If we had a stronger hand than AJs with a BDFD I could see continuing, but as it is I just don't see the point when we're so rarely going to improve enough to beat a big hand, and even more rarely going to runner-runner our way into a hand we feel comfortable raising with (i.e., implied odds).

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

66% of AA, KK ,AK eh? I think that means we can take a peek at the turn yes? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: I felt dirty...yet good
 

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If we had a stronger hand than AJs with a BDFD I could see continuing, but as it is I just don't see the point when we're so rarely going to improve enough to beat a big hand, and even more rarely going to runner-runner our way into a hand we feel comfortable raising with (i.e., implied odds).

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Yeah, I think the implied/reverse implied is a really good point and makes it much closer to a fold.

Without a BDFD, I would be folding this flop for sure. With it I think it's close. One reason that pushes this to a call for me is Nate's idea that the bettor might give up and stop betting, allowing us to get to showdown and win more often, maybe even unimproved. I admit though that somebody with those stats isn't giving up often.