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-   -   Playing against a free roller. (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=405935)

DRKEVDC 12-27-2005 03:14 PM

Playing against a free roller.
 
Here is the scenario, you have hit your straight on the turn with two of a suit on the board. You bet and a fish raises you. Do you reraise or simply call? In the last couple of days this has happened a bunch and each time the third suit hits the board and I am losing to a 10 high flush. When I look at the HH on PP I see that this person had also made the straight and was freerolling the flush.

Is there anyway to not go broke on these hands?

joewatch 12-27-2005 04:14 PM

Re: Playing against a free roller.
 
Depends how big the pot is. If there were only a little left to bet after a call, I would be inclined to just push it. If it were deeper and you are sure to split, this may be a good time to post-oak it on the river with any flushing card or board pair.

12-27-2005 06:45 PM

Re: Playing against a free roller.
 
Does this...

[ QUOTE ]
Here is the scenario, you have hit your straight on the turn with two of a suit on the board. You bet and a fish raises you.

[/ QUOTE ]

really go with this...

[ QUOTE ]
When I look at the HH on PP I see that this person had also made the straight and was freerolling the flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you or your opponent is short, calling or raising all-in is probably justified. If both of you are deep, calling and value betting/bluffing the river without the redraw is probably best.

BluffTHIS! 12-28-2005 05:18 AM

Re: Playing against a free roller.
 
As Chimichonga pointed out, regardless of whether that player is normally a fish, raising with the nuts and freeroll is not a fishy play but a smart tight aggressive play. And the defense against being freerolled is to FOLD.

DRKEVDC 12-28-2005 05:53 PM

Re: Playing against a free roller.
 
This particular player had a 100%VPIP and showed almost every hand down after 3 orbits. He had hit a few miracle cards and had reloaded once while I was there.

Now how would you play the turn when you made the straight with the 2 flush cards out there. Do you just check/call and then fold on the river if the flush hits? This seems weak tight to me and I am allowing people to hit there flush if it gets checked around.

BluffTHIS! 12-28-2005 07:34 PM

Re: Playing against a free roller.
 
If you allow yourself to play bad against bad players by giving them too much action in certain situations where they are ahead, then you have given up a large part of your edge against them and also given them a freeroll to play more hands against you and suck out.

Although the option you mention, calling and then folding if the flush comes is viable in some situations, you are also setting yourself up to be bluffed off a split by another player overplaying a nonfreerolling straight on the turn, but who is capable of reading your hand and bluffing. Whereas you can't do the same to him with any confidence of having fold equity because he is more likely to be a calling station. So wait until your hand and your position and the opponents involved add up to a better spot to stick your stack in.

12-29-2005 03:17 AM

Re: Playing against a free roller.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Now how would you play the turn when you made the straight with the 2 flush cards out there. Do you just check/call and then fold on the river if the flush hits? This seems weak tight to me and I am allowing people to hit there flush if it gets checked around.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how others feel, but dealing with a made straight on a 2-flush board OOP without redraws and facing a raise is one of the tougher spots to actually play correctly. (By play correctly, I mean in a math sense where one can see the hands face up.) The reason for this is that a raise could mean anything from an overplayed set (not very likely) to the naked nuts (reasonably likely) to a dominating made hand + redraw (reasonably likely). Therefore, making the proper play depends tremendously upon knowing the opponent and making a good read. You are going to get robbed if you dump your made hand to a full pot bet every such time, but not having the ability to dump in the correct spots is certainly a leak.

Joewatch made a good point when he mentioned pot size as being important. If the pot is small going to the turn and you are reraised, you need to do some serious thinking about your opponent. If the pot is already large and you have a significant percentage of your stack in or the reraise is all-in and small, you are probably going to want to see things to the end.


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