Blind Defense 10/1
 

Whats the line that you usually take here? I hate getting involved with hands like this but it is a shame to throw it away. No reads
***** Hand History for Game 2742339757 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:15896371 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Monday, September 19, 23:57:45 EDT 2005
Table Table 11653 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 9: willdestroyu ( $547 )
Seat 10: tyler715 ( $1675 )
Seat 7: snapdotz ( $740 )
Seat 6: Samurai_04 ( $1605 )
Seat 8: hokage918 ( $45 )
Seat 2: malholm ( $1223 )
Seat 3: Luuucas ( $1530 )
Seat 4: votewalken08 ( $635 )
Trny:15896371 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to snapdotz [ 5c Jh ]
hokage918 folds.
willdestroyu folds.
tyler715 folds.
malholm folds.
Luuucas folds.
votewalken08 folds.
Samurai_04 calls [15].
snapdotz checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Th, 4s, Js ]
Samurai_04 bets [55].
snapdotz raises [?].

Re: Blind Defense 10/1
 

I'd raise and fold to a reraise. On the turn, it all depends on the card and SB's action, really.

Re: Blind Defense 10/1
 

Hands like this I almost always call, bet/raise the turn, and check behind on the river if we even get that far.

Re: Blind Defense 10/1
 

I would fold to his bet on the flop.

Re: Blind Defense 10/1
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hands like this I almost always call, bet/raise the turn, and check behind on the river if we even get that far.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally, I'd agree with you, and I should have mentioned this in my post. Here, though, we have JTx with two of a suit. There are plenty of turn cards that will make us queasy. I realize it's HU, and therefore these draws don't show up as often, but I still say you need to raise to freeze any that are out there.

Re: Blind Defense 10/1
 

I think its stupid to fold the to flop bet with top pair, i know we have insufficient amount of chips to get fancy but when your throwing away the best hand your losing chips. In this case i raised out to 125 and he folded. I rasied on the flop to maybe make him pay for a flush draw.

Re: Blind Defense 10/1
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hands like this I almost always call, bet/raise the turn, and check behind on the river if we even get that far.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally, I'd agree with you, and I should have mentioned this in my post. Here, though, we have JTx with two of a suit. There are plenty of turn cards that will make us queasy. I realize it's HU, and therefore these draws don't show up as often, but I still say you need to raise to freeze any that are out there.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think raising the flop gets called a lot, it looks like you're just trying to not let him take your blind.

But there's also merit to it because if he'd fold to a raise on the turn, he'll probably check-fold the turn if he calls a flop raise. This gives you a chance to win the pot right on the flop as well, and charge him to draw for a flush, straight, overcards whatever.

The only thing I don't like about that is that it'll tend to make the pot bigger, because now you have to lead out/raise bigger on the turn than you would if you simply called. I like to keep the pot small in this kind of situation.

Re: Blind Defense 10/1
 

Raising the turn makes the pot bigger too you know.

Re: Blind Defense 10/1
 

Oh absolutely, but if we raise the flop to 175 and he calls, now the pot is 360. If he checks the turn, we bet 200 or so? That's 375 invested.

But if you just call, he may check the turn in which case you can bet 80, or he'll lead 80 and you can pop it to 200, for an investment of either 130 or 255.

edit: Notice that if you just call on the flop, the maximum amount of chips you'll put in is only 80 more than the minimum you'd put in by raising the flop.

Re: Blind Defense 10/1
 

Raising to 125 gives him 3.5 to 1 odds, which are good enough odds for him to call with a flush draw or straight draw.

I think your play depends very much on your read of the player. I don't really disagree with your play, but I don't like battling in small pots early in a 10+1 vs LAG opponents. If you believe you will pick up this pot more than 55% of the time then it is worth risking the 125 chips. To eliminate implied odds for a draw you need to raise to 150-175.

Re: Blind Defense 10/1
 

First, calling the flop gives him a free card. You will give him a 10-20% chance to turn the better hand for free? Regardless of what he has, I think it is likely he will make another bet on the turn. Assuming he bets 80, raising to 200 offers him implied odds to call with a draw

Re: Blind Defense 10/1
 

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming he bets 80, raising to 200 offers him implied odds to call with a draw

[/ QUOTE ]
There's no such thing as implied odds when you're unwilling to invest any more chips.

Re: Blind Defense 10/1
 

The villian doesn't know whether or not you will invest more chips. Raising to 200 on the turn gives him 3.75 to 1 odds. If spade comes on river and he bets 75 into a pot of 570, are you going to fold? If he has Ax, Kx, or Qx of spades he doesn't need his odds to be implied.

I think it is obvious we play this hand differently. I would either fold or raise to 150 on the flop, depending on the player. There are three outcomes from the different ways I would play it. I could end up with 855, 740, or 590 chips. Losing 150 hurts the remainder of my tournament strategy more than gaining 115 chips helps, so I might opt for the no risk choice of 740 vs LAG or maniac opponents.

Re: Blind Defense 10/1
 

Your opponent doesn't have to make a mistake for you to benefit. When you're a favorite to win the hand, any chips that go into the pot are beneficial to you. So he can correctly call, but you have the most equity in every chip that goes in, if he is in fact on a draw.

I'll probably take a some flack for that statement, but I think this is a clear example of where cash game play deviates from tourney play. When you bet enough for him to make an error by calling, you're also risking a much more significant portion of your stack. In addition, the larger the pot is, the more willing he will be to call, because he's already put in a lot of chips. Losing the hand hurts him a lot, winning helps him a lot.

This is a pot you'd like to win, but you don't want to commit a lot of chips in doing so. I think the best thing to do is try to get as cheap a showdown as possible. If he has pot/implied odds to call (which I think you need better odds than normal, because losing half your stack in a tourney is way worse than losing half your stack in a cash game), whatever...you may not be swearing by the fundamental theorem, but you also won't be crippled 20%+ of the time.

Commit lots of chips when you know you're a big favorite.