Home game ruling
 

We try to play as close to casino rules as possible. And this situation came up the other day.

I was in the CO, folded to me I announce all-in, the BB immediately says call but it's not his action yet. The action is then folded around to him and then he decided to fold.

Is he forced to call or can he change is mind?

Re: Home game ruling
 

I would rule that he is obligated to call since no intervening action has occured which negated his verbal declaration..

see this recent thread: SEARCH is your friend

Re: Home game ruling
 

I'd make his action stand if you are trying to be strict. If it is a more casual home game, I'd give him the option.

Re: Home game ruling
 

I'm not sure but I thought casino rules were a bet out of turn is illegal and therefore withdrawn.

Re: Home game ruling
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure but I thought casino rules were a bet out of turn is illegal and therefore withdrawn.

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That's usually true, unless the out of turn action significantly affects other players actions. This is usually true in big bet games, when a player says call out of turn to a large bet which causes people acting in between to fold marginal hands they may have otherwise called with.

Re: Home game ruling
 

[ QUOTE ]

I was in the CO, folded to me I announce all-in, the BB immediately says call but it's not his action yet. The action is then folded around to him and then he decided to fold.

Is he forced to call or can he change is mind?

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I'd rule that he is verbally committed. That should cut off the act-out-of-turn problem.
I'd also put specific rules in your rulebook about this situation.

Re: Home game ruling
 

[ QUOTE ]
We try to play as close to casino rules as possible. And this situation came up the other day.

I was in the CO, folded to me I announce all-in, the BB immediately says call but it's not his action yet. The action is then folded around to him and then he decided to fold.

Is he forced to call or can he change is mind?

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Although I know many people who will contend that the call should be binding, I believe that it should not.

Here is my reasoning. In the ordinary course of the game every player who acts has to be concerned about the cation that a player behind them will take. It would be a significant advantage to a player to know what the player behind them is going to do.

So Now player 1 bets, before player 2 acts player 3 announces his action. This is a huge advantage to player 2 if the action is binding. But if the rule is that the action out of turn is not binding Player 2 no longer has this advantage and he is back where he should be -- unsure about what Player 3 will do.

Acting out of turn should not be tolerated, sure it will happen accidently from time to time, but if a player constantly does it, it is time to stop inviting him to the game.

Re: Home game ruling
 

[ QUOTE ]
...So Now player 1 bets, before player 2 acts player 3 announces his action. This is a huge advantage to player 2 if the action is binding. But if the rule is that the action out of turn is not binding Player 2 no longer has this advantage and he is back where he should be -- unsure about what Player 3 will do.

Acting out of turn should not be tolerated, sure it will happen accidently from time to time, but if a player constantly does it, it is time to stop inviting him to the game.

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The problem still remains that player 2 knows what player 3's likely intentions are. Even if you make Player 3's declaration non binding, player 2 still has the advantage of more information.

Technically, I don't believe the rules state the out of turn verbal declaratioon is bindng, but your game could be subjected to some serious angle shooting if you don't have some type of out of turn rule in place (and I need to address this issue as well in my rules).

Re: Home game ruling
 

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The problem still remains that player 2 knows what player 3's likely intentions are. Even if you make Player 3's declaration non binding, player 2 still has the advantage of more information.

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It seems to me that if all playes know that the out of turn action isn't binding, then this is no different than Player 3 picking up the chps to call and acting like he is going to call. Player two gets this information but doesn't know whether it is indiciative that Player 3 is going to call or that Player 3 wants Player 2 to think he will call.

Re: Home game ruling
 

[ QUOTE ]
Technically, I don't believe the rules state the out of turn verbal declaratioon is bindng, but your game could be subjected to some serious angle shooting if you don't have some type of out of turn rule in place (and I need to address this issue as well in my rules).

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Technically, you are correct. If there is the potential of angle shooting going on, then making a verbal statement binding and giving Player 2 the power and the information will teach Player 3 to NEVER NEVER do it again.

But I'm going to have to relook at this in my rules and decide if our setup is too strict, because both arguments have merit