table talk ethics
 

in general, how do you feel about player's talking about hands, reads, etc. in the middle of a multi-way pot? some specific situations below...

pot is multi-way on the flop and it's checked to the button who starts reaching for chips; the BB says "don't bet, you'll regret it" and indeed the button ends up checking; ethical, unethical, or unclear?

pot is three-handed on the turn and it's checked to the button who bets; before the first player can act the button says "careful, you're gonna get check-raise if you call"; ethical, unethical, or unclear?

four-handed on the river, and the first player leads out; the next player says "you're bluffing" and calls; ethical, unethical, or unclear?

Re: table talk ethics
 

pot is multi-way on the flop and it's checked to the button who starts reaching for chips; the BB says "don't bet, you'll regret it" and indeed the button ends up checking; ethical, inethical, or unclear?

Is the BB still in the hand? If so ethical

pot is three-handed on the turn and it's checked to the button who bets; before the first player can act the button says "careful, you're gonna get check-raise if you call"; ethical, inethical, or unclear?

Ethical


four-handed on the river, and the first player leads out; the next player says "you're bluffing" and calls; ethical, inethical, or unclear?

Ethical

By the way inethical isn't a word. The word you are looking for is Unethical

Re: table talk ethics
 

I believe that if two players are in a hand together they can say whatever they want to each other. It's all part of the reading and bluffing psychology. What pisses me off is when people who are out of the action start talking. When they point out things that the player in the hand didn't notice or know.

Re: table talk ethics
 

I agree, players in the hand can say whatever, but they shouldn't give away the content of their hand, particularly with other people in left in the hand.

Re: table talk ethics
 

I think it is pretty clear if it is heads up then either person who is in the hand can say whatever they want. In other words, table talk can be used as a strategy to try and manipulate the other person in the hand.
I think it is also just as clear that if you are not in the hand, you should not be talking about the hand. You should also not be saying anything that might influence one of the players who is actually still involved in the hand.
I think where it gets fuzzy, however, is when there are multiple people in the hand. In that case, everyone involved in the hand should not say anything that would influence one player if not all players were able to get that information at their same relative time in the hand. In other words, if there are three players in the hand (A, B, and C) and player A acts, player C should not say something to influence the upcoming action of player B.
In your examples:

"pot is multi-way on the flop and it's checked to the button who starts reaching for chips; the BB says "don't bet, you'll regret it" and indeed the button ends up checking; ethical, unethical, or unclear?"

Unethical, because the BB gave the button information that the other players in the hand were not able to act on for their first action in that round.

"pot is three-handed on the turn and it's checked to the button who bets; before the first player can act the button says "careful, you're gonna get check-raise if you call"; ethical, unethical, or unclear?"

Ethical, because no one else has acted on the previous action in that round (the button's bet) and the second player will also be able to act on that information.

"four-handed on the river, and the first player leads out; the next player says "you're bluffing" and calls; ethical, unethical, or unclear?"

Ethical.

The fact of the matter is in poker you are always trying to influence the actions of the other players in the hand with you. Attempting this verbally should not be considered that much different, as long as you are not revealing information about your hand to other players in the hand or giving certain players in the hand an informational advantage at any time.

Re: table talk ethics
 

While I agree with you, I would add a caution. The talk itself may be ethical, but if it's intended to gain an unfair result, it's unethical. There are three possible objections a player in a multiway pot might make to a comment by someone else in the pot: collusion, communication of hand information and helping a player play.

The general assumption in Poker is that anything said by a player in the pot is part of the game, intended to maximize his profit, not to communicate information. If he's bad at table talk and actually giving information away, that's his own lookout and other players are entitled to take full advantage. If it happens to work against you, say when you have the best hand and a clumsy table-talker gives away that he holds the second-best hand and induces other players to fold, that's the luck of the game.

But it's easy to cross the line without noticing, and it's even easier to make someone else mad by seeming to cross the line. If that's not your strategy, you should be careful. The most common fight I see is not about collusion or giving away your hand, but in helping someone else play: "watch out, he could have a straight" or "boy, he limped in preflop but now he's raising like crazy." It's true that information is out there for everyone to see, but not everyone sees it.

If you're not in the hand, you should never say anything that might affect the play in any way.

Re: table talk ethics
 

We're funny about things in the UK. Speech play of any kind is not allowed during a hand. Some players try it, and sometimes get away with it, but not as often as in the US. At the very least such things are frowned upon. Ethics and morals are subjective. Most UK players would consider all 3 examples from the OP to be unethical, but this is because of the culture in our games over here.

Re: table talk ethics
 

I have never played live poker (only online), but I think it might not be allowed in a casino. Still, I also think these things described can be part of the game, psychology, tells, and such, so I'm a bit split. I think some people might find it offensive whereas I think I would rather allow it myself, since it adds another dimension to the game.
I usually don't talk about hands when playing online, but that's because I want to show respect to others, not because I would dislike it myself.

When someone makes a big bet and says "call", how do you react to that?
Or when they say "fold" as well...

Re: table talk ethics
 

[ QUOTE ]
We're funny about things in the UK. Speech play of any kind is not allowed during a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you play, Currylover? I haven't found this to be the case in UK casino tournaments nor in home games. But you may be playing at higher stakes than me or in a different city perhaps?

Re: table talk ethics
 

In the OP's 3rd situation, suppose 1st player leads out and 2nd player says, "I know you're bluffing! Someone has to call that." Then he folds.

Is that ethical?