Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

This was a weekend 20-40 game at the Mirage. The key player in question seemed to be an observant player who didn't get out of line. I've been at the table for about an hour and a half and have put on my typical exhibition of folding.

The hand:

An MP joins the game and posts. UTG folds. I'm UTG+1, pick up A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and raise. The next player folds. The new MP poster calls. Another MP calls.

The observant player is in the cutoff and cold-calls the raise. Everybody else folded to the Big Blind who called. Five players saw the flop with 10 small bets in the pot.

The flop is: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

The Big Blind checked and I bet my top pair/top kicker. The two MPs folded to the Cutoff. He called without giving any sign of strength or weakness. The Big Blind also called. Three players saw the turn with 6.5 big bets in the pot.

The turn is: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

The Big Blind checked. I bet. The Cutoff called. The Big Blind folded. The river was seen heads-up with 8.5 big bets in the pot.

After the turn action was complete, the Cutoff rechecked his hole cards. It really caught my eye. It seemed to me he was double-checking for something specific. I do not believe the Cutoff noticed me picking up on this. He seemed genuinely interested in his own cards.

What do you make of a hole card recheck in this spot?

The river is: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

What's your play if you think AK is good? If you think it's not good?

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

he was probably just making sure he did in fact pick up that straight draw

i like check calling the river here to induce a bluff from a hand that missed

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

Villian was desribed as an "observant player who didn't get out of line", -- I figure this means he is tightish. Therefore, I am findind it difficult to find a hand that would cold-call preflop and then improve on the turn.

Surely 77 would fold the flop? Would he cold-call 78s or A7s from an EP raiser?

It's difficult to know, but if he did improve on the turn his most likely hands are now either a busted straight draw or perhaps a two-pair with Ax. This would suggest a check-call.

On the other hand, if a read confuses me, and I don't know what to make of it, I prefer to just ignore it and play the hand straight-foward.

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

He called with Axs and is suddenly not sure of his kicker.

I would check call the river. He will most often bet his ace and you save a bet if he has two pair.

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

If he hit a straight. And i check call...

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

checkraise if he'll bet his ace when checked to. maybe you'll collect a bluff this way also. fold to a 3-bet.

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

Well usually a recheck like that is to make sure he has those 2 clubs like he thought and not one spade instead. But these possible tells are not worth reading into in limit holdem as it might mean nothing. Some people do that on a regular basis out of habit. He could be doing that for your benefit to confuse you. Bottom line is its not reliable enough a tell to not play the hand the way its supposed to be played. Which is value bet the river! If he had you before most likely would have heard from him before. His hand might be the A2 of clubs but agian it could be anything really. All you know for sure is you have Ak and have not got raised yet so the 2 shouldn't scare you from betting. And the idea of checking hoping he will bluff will not work nearly enough. Most people know(especially observant ones) not to bluff when a solid player bets all the way then checks river. The solid player woulda bet again if he was bluffing(he's usually not gonna just give up after going that far on a busted hand). If he's checking its usually because he has something and will probably payoff. I'm gonna take a gamble here and say his hand was KQ clubs. Because A2 clubs less likely to call preflop. KQs is a possible holdling that a somewhat solid player might make there.

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

Oh i forgot to say also possible Aq that were black but not suited. But i like the Kq clubs better.

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

Did he start counting on his fingers as well?

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

I would say he probably forgot his kicker on his Ax's but I'm still a little miffed why he would wait until after the betting.

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

my guess would be A7s. (maybe even Ac7c.)

if they still tend to check their weak A's, in that game, I'd bet the river.

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
my guess would be A7s. (maybe even Ac7c.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking that too, but Ac7c seems less likely as he would have raised somewhere.

I think you need to bet the river.

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

"Ac7c seems less likely as he would have raised somewhere."

Not necessarily in that Mirage game. As alluded to by Gabe, they might just call, call and even check behind on the river.

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

I am not much of a live player, but this post caught my eye. To answer your question, from all my previous observations I believe he was checking his weak kicker to see if he paired it.

In terms of what line to take, if he is observant then he will have to put you on a bigger Ace, so checking here seems weak.

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

seeing as how I love the Mirage 20/40 game, I'm gonna reply to this. This game is a value betting paradise. I wouldn't think twice about this Dyn, he's checking his A7 and yhig.

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

you should bet. he has AQ or AJ and he's trying to indicate to you that he has that so he can scare you. he doesnt want you to bet again. he was acting when he pretended to be interested.

youre playing poker again? what the hells that about?

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking that too, but Ac7c seems less likely as he would have raised somewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't played there in almost a year, but the typical players in that game generally don't make that raise, even with 18 outs plus fold equity.

Obviously, the good ones will often make that raise on the turn with position, because they can make a weak/tight player fold a better ace. Often, the w/t Mirage player will fold his AK or AQ face up to show the rest of the table what a good laydown he made. If the Ac7c doesn't improve, he just checks behind the weak/tight player on the river.

Results
 

With a brick on the river, I decided to simply bet rather than induce a bluff just in case he had a pair.

I bet. He called. I showed and won.

He turned over his cards. He had A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I was seriously baffled and have thought about this hand way too much.

Re: Results
 

hmm that's interesting im the only one who knew what he had... i wish i played poker as well as i post.

it's typical weak tight behavior. he knows he's in a tough spot and he's hoping youll be weak tight like him and check the river because that's exactly what he plans to do, and exactly what he would do in your spot with AK.

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

Hi dynasty,

I'd read it as A7. He called the flop because he flopped top pair but didn't particularly good or bad about his hand and he had no draw. Now the turn comes, and all he notices at first is that it doesn't give him 2 pair. Then he realizes, hey, I have an OESD. Right? Did I just make 2 pair? Let me check again...

So, I... check-raise the river.

good luck.
eric

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
hmm that's interesting im the only one who knew what he had... i wish i played poker as well as i post.

it's typical weak tight behavior. he knows he's in a tough spot and he's hoping youll be weak tight like him and check the river because that's exactly what he plans to do, and exactly what he would do in your spot with AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe. mirage 20/40 players regulars. fun game if you rile them up tho.

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
He had A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I was seriously baffled and have thought about this hand way too much.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would baffle me too, if there were two A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the deck [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
it's typical weak tight behavior. he knows he's in a tough spot and he's hoping youll be weak tight like him and check the river because that's exactly what he plans to do, and exactly what he would do in your spot with AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

It may be weak-tight, but I don't think the guy's line is all that bad. He's got a hand that has to call all the way, and since he'll never move Dynasty off his hand (and vice versa), the guy lost the minimum.

Sparks

Re: Mirage 20-40: What Do You Make of This Card Checking Tell?
 

The river is a blank. He'd have likely raised you on the turn if he had better. Bet the river. Maybe checking for a turned draw with A9 or better? Definitely seems to be checking his kicker though. He may have just been deciding here if he was going to go to showdown or not.

b