TQs BB. Standard?
 

First hand so no reads.

BB with T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

5 Limpers, SB completes. I raise. All call

7 go to a flop of 14SB.

Board brings T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Checked to UTG who bets. 1 fold, 4 calls and i peel one off.

6 go to the turn for 10BB

Turn card is the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Checked to UTG who bets, UTG +1 raises, and the button calls. SB folds as do i.

Totally standard?

Re: TQs BB. Standard?
 

Merry Christmas

Re: TQs BB. Standard?
 

I don't like raising this preflop. This is a situation that thrives on implied odds. There's a big field, which means you will most likely need a big hand to win. You want to hit a OESD or a flush draw (or ideally both at the same time). Why cut your implied odds in half by raising? Your odds of getting a flush or straight are much worse than the 6:1 you're getting from the other players who will call your raise.

The flop sucks. You probably don't have the best hand now, and what are you drawing towards? If you get another Q, someone else may get a straight (or a flush if it's Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]). I guess either T is a safe out, though you may still lose if someone catches a straight or flush on the river. Unfortunately, you're getting enormous odds now, so you have to chase your two-outter anyway.

If you didn't raise preflop, you'd be able to fold on the flop, which would be much better against a large field with a very marginal hand.

Re: TQs BB. Standard?
 

Grunch...

Why are we raising this preflop?

I would tend to check this here because our position on the flop is gonna suck.

Re: TQs BB. Standard?
 

thanks for that nice analysis.

the counter argument, and the reason i raised is to push my pot equity which i feel is more than the 14.3% i need to make this a value raise.

Re: TQs BB. Standard?
 

Case in point:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 22.2148 % 21.04% 01.20% { QdTd }
Hand 2: 12.9288 % 11.90% 01.04% { random }
Hand 3: 12.9584 % 11.93% 01.05% { random }
Hand 4: 12.9768 % 11.94% 01.05% { random }
Hand 5: 12.9901 % 11.96% 01.04% { random }
Hand 6: 12.9789 % 11.95% 01.04% { random }
Hand 7: 12.9521 % 11.92% 01.04% { random }

Also, i feel a bloated pot here may even increase our postflop expectation as we are usually drawing to or close to the nuts and a big pot forces others to correctly call down.

Re: TQs BB. Standard?
 

Why didnt you bet the flop?

Re: TQs BB. Standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for that nice analysis.

the counter argument, and the reason i raised is to push my pot equity which i feel is more than the 14.3% i need to make this a value raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think your equity in this situation is?

Edit: Okay, I see that you ran QTs vs a bunch of random hands. People don't limp with random hands, so what do you think your equity in THIS situation is?

--Dave.

Edit: I'm not going to complain too much if your hand ranges for them are a little different than mine, nor if you give everyone the same hand range, but let's get it fairly close to reasonable.

Edit: FWIW, I think that this may be worth raising preflop...

Re: TQs BB. Standard?
 

So you're saying that each of 5 limpers entered the pot with anything from 72o to pocket rockets? That's just making the stats say what you want there...

I just don't think you are gonna be in a good position on the flop to take advantage of pushing your slim equity edge preflop...there's no way it's quite as large as your stats create...

Re: TQs BB. Standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The flop sucks... ...Unfortunately, you're getting enormous odds now, so you have to chase your two-outter anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got to give hero more than two outs here. Read Small Stakes Holdem, by Ed Miller, to learn more.