I made a HUGELY bad fold, should I have called down?
 

I'm in Big Blind with J9o...
1 early limper, CO raises, Button calls, I call.

Flop: 10 8 3, with 2 clubs.

I check, Early limper checks, CO bets, BU calls, I call, early guy calls.

Turn: Q of clubs ( I made my Straight!).

I bet out, early guy calls, CO raises, BU cold Calls, I fold.

River is not a club, it's a blank.

CO win 15 Big Bet pot with AA.

Did my fold on the Turn totally suck? (results-wise it did, but is this a long-term loser play big-time?)
I bet out
with the intention of folding to a raise 'cause I wanted to find out if anyone had a flush, and I wanted to save Big Bets...I figured no-one would raise without having a flush...
how bad was this? How flawed was my thinking here? Is this a 100% call down for 2 more BIg Bets situation? ("fold the river if someone bets and it's a club" the only exception?)

Should I have check-raised the Turn w/ the made str8?

I know I f*ed up - I just want someone to give me the proper line and tell me why
it's correct...

Re: I made a HUGELY bad fold, should I have called down?
 

Yes it sux.

Re: I made a HUGELY bad fold, should I have called down?
 

I would have three bet the turn to find out where you were with that strong of a hand, his raise was to find out where you were, his raise from the CO is most certainly a AA-1010, maybe AKs he likely would have folded to a 3 bet (results orientated) and yes IMO you will almost always get raised by a good player in this situation with AA (no flush) as he wants you to pay for that fourth club and he can safely fold to a 3 bet knowing that he is certainly beat. C'raising the turn is no good, it may get checked around (catostrophic), and I don't believe it really defines the villian's hand if he calls you. I think that he is more apt to 3bet your c'raise with AA than he would be to cap your raise had you led the turn, again he can safely fold to your cap on his 3bet. You need to try to win this on the turn. I would still value bet a club river and fold to a raise. Dunno if this is the proper line but it is how I would have played it

Re: I made a HUGELY bad fold, should I have called down?
 

No stats on CO makes it more difficult, but I'd say call the raise from CO and bet/call the river. Another viable option is to c/r the turn and see if you get 3-bet. Folding is just about the weakest line you can take.

Re: I made a HUGELY bad fold, should I have called down?
 

Remind yourself that it should take more than a raise to your donk from the flop aggressor, to convince you that you're beat. And even if you are convinced you're beat, remind yourself what % of time you must be beat to make a fold the correct move.

Otherwise, c/r the turn if you think you can get it in. I I don't really like bet/call, and I don't like bet/3bet in this situation. However, bet/3bet has its merits since you could increase your equity if the early guy folds a club when AA doesn't contain one.

Re: I made a HUGELY bad fold, should I have called down?
 

wow, that's donktastic!!! It is funny, cuz you are playing a completely different game than everyone else at the table. They are playing Limit Hold 'em, you're playing "Who's got the nuts?" (ok, you said you know you f'd up, so I'm probably laying it on a little thick. It is only because I too have made these kinds of folds.)

Yes, this is a big long-term losing fold. PFR is the same guy who is rasing here. Yes, AK[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or AJ[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is possible, but so is AA,KK,QQ,TT or maybe even A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Betting out on the turn is good as a Check by the CO would be the worst thing in the world for you. So your line is correct, except about folding to a raise on the turn.

Re: I made a HUGELY bad fold, should I have called down?
 

great advice...

I guess I should stop playing "Who's got the nuts?" and start playing Limit HE.

The mistake I made was not thinking properly what my opponent would be raising with...
I was multi-tabling and made an impulsive fold...

Turn w/ my Made Str8 and 3 clubs on the board should be called by me or 3-bet?

If no club on the river then betting out is 100% correct all the time, right?

I think it's a 3-bet on Turn, then a bet on river if no club...

Re: I made a HUGELY bad fold, should I have called down?
 

Fold preflop, but not on the turn.

Re: I made a HUGELY bad fold, should I have called down?
 

knowing there will be 3 opponents taking the flop with you, isn't it profitably long-term to take a flop with J9o or Q10o or a ppk. pair in this situation?

(though I do give you the fact that it takes a lot to be able to overcome the position
deficit you get by entering the hand here in the worst possible position...but, OTOH, you already have 1 small bet in...)

Re: I made a HUGELY bad fold, should I have called down?
 

Yea, yours sucks but mine is pretty bad too. In my defense this was one of my first hands ever at 20/40, and my stats on SB from 15/30 was that he was fairly passive post flop. Little did I know he was on megatilt.

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero folds, CO calls.

River: (16.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, CO calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has Jd Kc (two pair, kings and eights).
CO has 9c 9d (two pair, nines and eights).
Outcome: SB wins 18.50 BB. </font>

Re: I made a HUGELY bad fold, should I have called down?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yea, yours sucks but mine is pretty bad too. In my defense this was one of my first hands ever at 20/40, and my stats on SB from 15/30 was that he was fairly passive post flop. Little did I know he was on megatilt.

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls

[/ QUOTE ]
No flop raise?

Re: I made a HUGELY bad fold, should I have called down?
 

yea, it's like you wait to make your hand, then you make it, and then you fold it...it makes no sense at all.

I'm realizing that some hands you just have to show down...and that sometimes
players are, in fact raising you for big bets with a WEAKER hand then yours, even though yours
isn't that strong...

But it's so tempting to try to save 2 Big Bets by not showing down and then "patting yourself on the back" for making a "good fold."

Is there an "easy answer odds chart" or something out there to solve these call down problems...?
If not, then what's the order of precedence in deciding whether or not to call down or fold in the turn?:

1. read of opponent raising/what hand you put him on
2. strength of your holding
3. size of the pot
4. your outs

In that order?