Pocket Aces and a beginner
 

Hi All....Another beginner dilema. Hero is UTG. UTG+1 is an absolute
maniac.....he's comes into 70-80 percent of the hands (with a raise regardless
of position or how many have lagged in front)......I was going to leave the table when the blinds got to me again....but then I get dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]......the CO has not even entered a hand since I got to the table (about
15 hands ago)........

Preflop:

Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, everyone folds to CO who caps. SB folds, BB
calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop[ 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
BB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, BB calls

Turn[9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]]
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO raises, everyone calls,

River[4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]}
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1`bets, CO raises, BB folds, Hero calls, UTG+1
3-bets, CO caps, Hero folds.

DId I screw up here by calling the first time on the river? I had top pair....
there was no flush possible......

thanks in advance for the critique.....

Jim

Re: Pocket Aces and a beginner
 

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 is an absolute
maniac.....he's comes into 70-80 percent of the hands (with a raise regardless
of position or how many have lagged in front)......I was going to leave the table when the blinds got to me again

[/ QUOTE ]

It would take an act of God to get me off of this table.


As for the hand, I would go ahead and call the river again. Looks like you are getting about 15:1 on the final river call as the pot is huge. Since UTG+1 is a total maniac he could be going crazy with just a pair. I'd call and hope CO shows KK.

Re: Pocket Aces and a beginner
 

Fold the river the first time.

Re: Pocket Aces and a beginner
 

Preflop - good
Flop - Fine but you have to be aware that there is a flush draw and a straight draw out that will coordinate with hgh cards that people love to play.
Turn - With the action so far CO's raise probably means you are dead but I think you just call down from here with top pair (plus if CO made two pair you may counterfeit him if the board pairs).
River - with this action I think you might fold to the raise (against one player call but the second player in can't be bluffing)

Re: Pocket Aces and a beginner
 

I'm just wondering, what is your read on the maniac postflop? The more I think about this hand, I am probably folding it on the river the first time unless UTG+1 is just as crazy after the flop as he is before it. On the river, worst case scenario is you have to pay 4 bets to see a showdown and you are getting 7:1. CO's range is most likely QQ+ and the maniac's range could be anything depending on how crazy he is. If he is a chip-spewing uber-LAG postflop then I have no problem paying 4 bets. If he is just wild before the flop but only continues on with a hand, then I am throwing it away.

Re: Pocket Aces and a beginner
 

Regardless of if the guy is a postflop maniac or not, you should consider the CO's hand and all previous action before being happy about putting in 4 bets on the river to see a showdown with one pair.

Re: Pocket Aces and a beginner
 

You made a big mistake on the flop. You can't protect your hand, and you're not getting good value with your raise either since anyone with a reasonable draw is not that much of a dog to you. You're supposed to call, let the BB bet again (or sometimes bet and sometimes c/r if the BB just checks) and raise him on the turn if the card that fell is good for you. If something like a Jh falls on the turn, you can just call the turn and minimize your exposure to this hand rather than raise to knock players out.

Some people might say that you fail to gain information by not raising the flop. I'd rather try to knock players out on the turn, occasionally stealing the pot away from someone who would have gotten lucky, rather than try to save a few bets in a big pot because you got some information.

Re: Pocket Aces and a beginner
 

[ QUOTE ]
Regardless of if the guy is a postflop maniac or not, you should consider the CO's hand and all previous action before being happy about putting in 4 bets on the river to see a showdown with one pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it possible that CO value raises this river based on the previous hands he's watched the maniac play, with a hand worse than Aces.


The pot is something like 23BB when it gets to Hero on the river.
CO could be trying to shut Hero out of the GIGANTIMUNGONORMOUS pot and get it HU with maniac on the river.

IMO CO is raising with a worse hand than Hero more than the required 9% of the time for Hero to make the call.


EDIT:
AA - 1 combo
KK - 6 combos
AQ - 6 combos
QQ - 3 combos
TT - 3 combos
99 - 3 combos
KQ?

I don't think the hands we lose to will ever be 10x the number of hands we beat. And if we know for a fact that it is going to 4 bets on the river, I still think it's a tough call.

To the OP: Once you call the first time on the river, you have to call the second time round. The pot is SOO huge that you would have to be 95% sure you were beaten to fold here. I don't think you could ever be that sure when there is an unknown and a maniac involved.
Calling and finding out you lost is way more +EV than folding and finding out you would have won.

Re: Pocket Aces and a beginner
 

He has a capper and a maniac behind him. What drawing hand do you put the guy who capped on? AK is seeing the river here. The maniac is seeing a river. I don't see this as a waiting to protect your hand situation. This is a raise and hope lots of money goes in situation.

Re: Pocket Aces and a beginner
 

I am definitely more concerned about CO than the maniac. That said, CO's hand range preflop is probably QQ+, AK. He is reasonably tight as he hasnt played a hand in two orbits, unless he has been absolutely card dead. We can safely remove AK based on the turn raise. I think his most likely holding is QQ and he decided to wait until the turn to go nuts. I just think there exists a chance that he has KK or AA and decided for whatever reason to wait until the turn. It certainly isnt a very good chance but it doesn't have to be.