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-   -   Two personal beliefs and their consequences (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=395775)

12-10-2005 09:31 PM

Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 
I am a fatalist; I do not believe in free will. This is because I feel that my actions are controlled by my brain and my brain in turn is controlled by the laws of physics. There is no room in here for independent action.

I also do not believe in the natural value of morality. I do not believe that any actions are in and of themselves inherently right or wrong. While I do in almost all cases act in a moral way (I haven't murdered anyone, for example) I see no real reason to do this.

Because of these beliefs I am ethically off the hock if I kill / rape / steal etc. Not only is it NOT MY CHOICE (because I do not have free will) it's not "wrong" because I don't believe wrong exists.

This seems to me an unsatisfactory solution. What do I do?

12-10-2005 09:51 PM

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 
Setting aside the issue of free will, I would say that your actions are constrained by the laws of physics, not controlled by them. The actions of an inanimate object like a pen are controlled by the laws of physics--if I hold the pen out to my side and let go of it, it will fall to the ground. If I hold my arm out to my side and let go of it, I can make it do anything I want it to do, within the contraints of the laws of physics. So, instead of falling down, I can actually make my arm rise.

12-10-2005 09:56 PM

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 
Can you actually? Think about it for a minute. Can you do anything other than what you actually do? What gives you that ability?

We are no different from highly complicated computers / animals.

imported_luckyme 12-10-2005 10:02 PM

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 
Reading Dennett's "Freedom Evolves" would be a good start. It'll give you a grasp of how freedom can exist and the errors of determinism.

Stu Pidasso 12-10-2005 10:08 PM

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 
[ QUOTE ]
This seems to me an unsatisfactory solution. What do I do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Postulate the existance of a superior being who gave you a soul and free will. Problem solved.

Stu

12-10-2005 10:09 PM

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 
Until you get into the logical inconsistancies with freewill and omniscience. Regardless, I am only willing to believe things which are logical to me. To do otherwise is irrational.

12-10-2005 10:10 PM

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 
Why don't you explain to me some of the main points? I apologize but I seem to have misplaced my copy of (random book) it must be in my other pants.

12-10-2005 10:16 PM

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 
"We are no different from highly complicated computers / animals."

Keep thinking like this and it will become a reality.

Or you can change your mind. Or does your mind change you?

Stu Pidasso 12-10-2005 10:17 PM

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 
[ QUOTE ]
Until you get into the logical inconsistancies with freewill and omniscience.

[/ QUOTE ]

A superior being is not by definition omniscience.

[ QUOTE ]
Regardless, I am only willing to believe things which are logical to me. To do otherwise is irrational

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying its impossible for a superior being to create a biological machine? If so all those scientest working on creating life from scratch are wasting thier time.

Stu

12-10-2005 10:21 PM

Re: Two personal beliefs and their consequences
 
If you are trying to turn this into a god argument well... go for it but I'm not gonna bite.

I am saying I cannot believe in things which are illogical. That is all.


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