I\'m weak - 88 with Q on flop
 

I feel like I'm giving up a lot of value with these type of flops. I'm set mining with the 88, I miss and there's one over. CO (Villain) is also a set miner who's aggressive with his misses and draws. Does anyone lead out on this flop? Obviously it's easier to play in position. Do you just give up on this hand OOP, and maybe play it stronger in position? Certainly I hate calling the flop and check-folding the turn.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

CO ($122.10)
Button ($98.85)
Hero ($180.05)
BB ($98.40)
UTG ($114.35)
UTG+1 ($75.95)
MP1 ($157.80)
MP2 ($114.65)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero (poster) calls $1.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($7) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: ($17) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $15</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $32

Re: I\'m weak - 88 with Q on flop
 

i generally c/f the flop under those circumstances.

Re: I\'m weak - 88 with Q on flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you just give up on this hand OOP, and maybe play it stronger in position?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Folding here (on the flop) is not a leak because you will make that money back on a similar hand where you have position and force villain to fold his marginal hand. If this hand were heads-up, I might call the flop and lead a favorable turn card, but I give him credit here for his c/b with 3-way action.

Re: I\'m weak - 88 with Q on flop
 

my thoughts exactly, i wish i could have annunciated them so well.

Re: I\'m weak - 88 with Q on flop
 

I'd bet the flop rather then check it. Maybe 4xBB. If he re-raises then fold. Either that or just c/f the flop. Either play will save you money.

Re: I\'m weak - 88 with Q on flop
 

Reverse implied odds, dont check/call that flop. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I would lead out most of the time. Makes things much eaiser.

Re: I\'m weak - 88 with Q on flop
 

Yeah, certainly the check-call is horrible. I guess it's a good idea to just play 88 OOP for set value, and in position I can bet the flop if it's checked. The fact that 88 might be the best hand here is pretty irrelevant since I can't show it down cheaply.

Re: I\'m weak - 88 with Q on flop
 

C/f the flop is the best thing here. The PFR checked the flop and then the CO bet, so this isn't a continuation bet. If the PFR (and granted he just minraised preflop) had bet, CO folded, then Hero should call sometimes and lead the turn. Even moreso on a flop like this because you have the added benefit of bluffable clubs to come on the turn to increase your chances of winning the hand if your 88 isn't best.

Re: I\'m weak - 88 with Q on flop
 

if you were heads up, or second to act on the flop and the first guy checked, betting out could be a good play (depending on what kind of player the guy left to act is). As it is your best option is check/fold.