Two Plus Two Older Archives - Expert Play according to the Table Coach

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Maybe Brilliant, Maybe Total Donkish I\'m not sure 2/4 fullring

BB, UTG are moderately loose, UTG1 is very loose, PFR is unknown

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: bottomset is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP3 raises, 2 folds, bottomset calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
bottomset bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
bottomset checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 folds, bottomset calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
bottomset bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, bottomset 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, bottomset calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

Re: Maybe Brilliant, Maybe Total Donkish I\'m not sure 2/4 fullring

Er, what part of this isn't totally standard?

Re: Maybe Brilliant, Maybe Total Donkish I\'m not sure 2/4 fullring

[ QUOTE ]
Er, what part of this isn't totally standard?

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We might have c/r'd the flop and bought some overcard outs.

Re: Maybe Brilliant, Maybe Total Donkish I\'m not sure 2/4 fullring

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Er, what part of this isn't totally standard?

[/ QUOTE ]

We might have c/r'd the flop and bought some overcard outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

We're much more likely to win with our straight than with a pair of Qs with a weak kicker. I would rather build a pot than try and knock out overcards/weak Js.

Plus, by leading we can always bet/3-bet and get the best of both worlds [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: Expert Play according to the Table Coach

[ QUOTE ]
table is loose/passive
first orbit at the table

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: bottomset is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
bottomset calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, bottomset calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, bottomset checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, BB calls, bottomset raises, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9.16 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, bottomset bets, MP3 folds, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (12.16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, bottomset bets, CO calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 14.16 BB

[/ QUOTE ]
I want to go over this hand. It's interesting IMO.

Preflop is okay I think -- borderline but playing this is profitable if you can outply these clowns postflop. I might fold this first orbit though.

The flop is, I think, the most interesting street. I'm not totally sure the flop check raise is the best play. I think a bet/call line might be better. Yr relative position to the pf raiser is pretty good, so if you hit on fourth street you can possibly checkraise ace hunters who call MP3 there. That is if you get raised on the flop. Otherwise there is a chance it gets checked through (which would suck).

This might be totally wrong though -- I'm just thinking out loud, er... in type. I don't mind how you played it.

Re: Expert Play according to the Table Coach

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
table is loose/passive
first orbit at the table

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: bottomset is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
bottomset calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, bottomset calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, bottomset checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, BB calls, bottomset raises, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9.16 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, bottomset bets, MP3 folds, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (12.16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, bottomset bets, CO calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 14.16 BB

[/ QUOTE ]
I want to go over this hand. It's interesting IMO.

Preflop is okay I think -- borderline but playing this is profitable if you can outply these clowns postflop. I might fold this first orbit though.

The flop is, I think, the most interesting street. I'm not totally sure the flop check raise is the best play. I think a bet/call line might be better. Yr relative position to the pf raiser is pretty good, so if you hit on fourth street you can possibly checkraise ace hunters who call MP3 there. That is if you get raised on the flop. Otherwise there is a chance it gets checked through (which would suck).

This might be totally wrong though -- I'm just thinking out loud, er... in type. I don't mind how you played it.

[/ QUOTE ]

We don't want to rely on a pfr'er to lead the flop 6 way, but we don't love it when we bet and get raised by the pfr'er unless UTG+1 calls first or we get coldcalls or Villain would raise overs. We regret some probable missed value bets some of the time when we check, but we get to see how things shake out and act accordingly + sometimes get a free card.

I play it the same way OP did. It's not super likely that it gets checked around 6-way (especially with people left to act after a check by the pfr'er on this board) and though we likely lose some value we don't mind getting/giving a free card, there are two people behind MP3 but only one between us and they're more likely to call a continuation bet than coldcall + UTG+1 might not love the prospect of getting trapped between two aggressors.