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-   -   do you see the flop? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=258207)

aceferret 05-24-2005 05:56 AM

do you see the flop?
 
2/4 NL, villian tight conservative UTG(250) limps, Hero(450) tight aggresive raises to 15 UTG+1 w/ AQs , folds around villian makes it 40 to go. Hero folds

good fold?

jtr 05-24-2005 09:52 AM

Re: do you see the flop?
 
I would call that a good fold, yes.

piki 05-24-2005 11:47 AM

Re: do you see the flop?
 
Better than 2-1 against 1 opponent? Suited overcards? Position?

I like a call. If he is tight, his flop play should define his hand well.

creedofhubris 05-24-2005 12:46 PM

Re: do you see the flop?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Better than 2-1 against 1 opponent? Suited overcards? Position?

I like a call. If he is tight, his flop play should define his hand well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain's already defined his hand with the ol' limp-reraise special. AA-JJ, AKs. Really, with a tight opponent, AA-KK.

If the stacks were deeper, hero could play, but hero is currently being asked to play a dominated hand for a max win of 12x the raise, so hero should fold.

piki 05-24-2005 01:04 PM

Re: do you see the flop?
 
He has defined his hand as a strong one. If he is very tight I like the implied odds for this hand with position. What is ace's image?

What hands would you call/raise the limp-reraise with?

amoeba 05-24-2005 01:12 PM

Re: do you see the flop?
 
what kind of flop would you be comfortable with? one with 2 queens?

I would rather call with suited connector than AQ here.

LuvDemNutz 05-24-2005 03:11 PM

Re: do you see the flop?
 
If the Villain is uber-tight and conservative then you win money by not getting involved with him when he has the goods.

If the stacks were deeper, MAYBE I call, otherwise I'm mucking with a quickness.

piki 05-24-2005 03:27 PM

Re: do you see the flop?
 
Dont get me wrong, I dont think this is an insta-call, but how do we plan to trap this tight-ass? Im not sure if two queens are good, but if one comes on the flop his bet should give us some information. Is there no way to out play him on the flop? What hands do you think we could break this player with? If you say pick a better spot, what would be a better spot agsinst this tight player?

Its an easy fold, but I dont like the raise if you arent willing to call a bit more than a min-reraise.

radioheadfan 05-24-2005 03:59 PM

Re: do you see the flop?
 
If the guy is tight/predictable and can lay down a high pocket pair, I'm calling with any two cards here in position. Just represent whatever hits the board. A couple of 7s hit the flop? Call his flop raise then raise/bet the turn. A straight or flush draw show up on the board? Make a big raise when the OESD or flush draw hits the turn. You will have much less fold equity when the flop hits K82 rainbow, but I wouldn't part with the AQs quite yet.

Learn to represent hands you dont have against these tight wads and watch them laydown when the board starts getting scary for their overpair. You of course need to be sure you have a tight image at the table and be confident that the villian can part with an overpair after the flop. If these conditions don't hold, then I don't see how you can play AQs here simply for the value of the cards, you need some bluffing equity coupled with the value of your hand to make playing it profitable in this spot against this type of villian.

LuvDemNutz 05-24-2005 04:20 PM

Re: do you see the flop?
 
[ QUOTE ]
If the guy is tight/predictable and can lay down a high pocket pair, I'm calling with any two cards here in position. Just represent whatever hits the board. A couple of 7s hit the flop? Call his flop raise then raise/bet the turn. A straight or flush draw show up on the board? Make a big raise when the OESD or flush draw hits the turn. You will have much less fold equity when the flop hits K82 rainbow, but I wouldn't part with the AQs quite yet.

Learn to represent hands you dont have against these tight wads and watch them laydown when the board starts getting scary for their overpair. You of course need to be sure you have a tight image at the table and be confident that the villian can part with an overpair after the flop. If these conditions don't hold, then I don't see how you can play AQs here simply for the value of the cards, you need some bluffing equity coupled with the value of your hand to make playing it profitable in this spot against this type of villian.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the tight-ass's stack is deep enough for this to work.

I know if I am tight ass and I raise almost 1/5 of my stack preflop with AA, I am pretty much going to the felt with it.


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