take home exam situation
 

A class I'm taking consists of lectures, some discussions, and two exams. We're only graded on the exams. It's a graduate class so grades don't really matter.

The two exams are take home. They give the following rules:
There are three pairs of questions each pair on a distinct stapled-shut sheet of paper. You must do one question from each pair. You have 8 hours to complete the exam. You can either do all of it at once, or break it up but from the time you've opened a pair of questions until you finish that question the clock is ticking. You may consult any materials you wish but should not talk to others.

In lecture at one point the professor admitted that there is no way for them to know how much time you take, it's just the good old honor system.

So would you follow the rules?

Re: take home exam situation
 

It occurs to me that I switched the first and second question wording so that 1 is asking if you will not cheat and two is asking if you would cheat. Since you can't edit polls I guess I'll stay with it.

Re: take home exam situation
 

I'm surprised by the results.

Re: take home exam situation
 

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I'm surprised by the results.

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ya, i expected question #2 to have different results. I guess I'm just dishonest.

-WW

Re: take home exam situation
 

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It's a graduate class so grades don't really matter.

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And thus there is zero reason to cheat. And you're right, the grades don't matter.

Re: take home exam situation
 

I would definatly try to limit myself, but if I needed to go over the time I would not hesitate to do so.

As far as working with others, it would depend on how comfortable I am with the material, and how well I know the other person. In general, I prefer to do school work on my own. I despise group projects and the such.

TONY

Re: take home exam situation
 

don't do takehome exams as a group, a bunch of us in my fraternity did this in a history 100 class of 2000 people, we thought they wouldn't be able to see it...well we were wrong and 8 of us had to accpet an F as a final grade, luckily I took the class with credit/non-credit which is kept hidden from the profs so it really didn't matter for me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: take home exam situation
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised by the results.

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ya, i expected question #2 to have different results. I guess I'm just dishonest.

-WW

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The results of question 2 (on which I voted no) have more to do with not knowing who you can trust more than anything else IMO. If I had a friend in the class, I'm certain we'd collaborate on the exam, but just approaching someone in the class is really stupid. The 1 grade doesn't matter all that much, and it would really suck to get ratted out/kicked out of school over trying to save a little time or get a slightly better grade.

Re: take home exam situation
 

i voted 81-99 would cheat, but i think that's the number that would cheat if they felt they needed to in order to pass. i also said i'd use more than eight hours if necessary. i think most people would be able to finish the exam at a reasonable level within eight hours though, meaning there's no motivation to cheat.

i'd never collaborate unless it was with someone i was really close to, would suck to get kicked out of school for no good reason.

Re: take home exam situation
 

It also seems pretty clear to me upon reading the replies to this thread so far that people either don't understand that it's graduate school or that that makes a difference.

Re: take home exam situation
 

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The results of question 2 (on which I voted no) have more to do with not knowing who you can trust more than anything else IMO. If I had a friend in the class, I'm certain we'd collaborate on the exam, but just approaching someone in the class is really stupid. The 1 grade doesn't matter all that much, and it would really suck to get ratted out/kicked out of school over trying to save a little time or get a slightly better grade.

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This is what I was thinking, but you put it much better than I would have.

Re: take home exam situation
 

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It also seems pretty clear to me upon reading the replies to this thread so far that people either don't understand that it's graduate school or that that makes a difference.

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If it's the case that people don't understand that it makes a difference, why don't you explain the difference? Or do you just like sounding pompous on the internet?

Re: take home exam situation
 

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It's a graduate class so grades don't really matter.


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so where is the incentive to cheat?

I'm in a fairly competitive (in that grades matter to an extent) post-graduate program right now and aside from wanting to get A's, I want to learn the coursework because a) i enjoy it, b) i'll have to use it in my career; and c) I am paying tuition so that great professors can teach me. Cheating fails to achieve any of those benefits of the degree. Not to mention the awesome time anyone who gets caught will have.

I don't care if everyone else in the class is working together against me, I'll study my ass off and try my best anyway.

Re: take home exam situation
 

63% of you suck.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/456/cheat2un.jpg

Re: take home exam situation
 

When I was in grad school, I once saw a note on the chalkboard in an office that the first year students shared saying `The solution to problem 2 of the take home is on p. 126 of the book on the table.' The person who I am convinced wrote that note said that he didn't understand why I thought it was wrong to do so.

Re: take home exam situation
 

Cheating is the lowest of the low.

The Doc

EDIT: Especially if you are in graduate school. You chose to go to graduate school because you obviously want to learn more about whatever it is you are studying. Doesn't academic integrity mean anything to you?

Re: take home exam situation
 

Any instructor who gives a take-home exam with a honor code time limit is an idiot.

Re: take home exam situation
 

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Any instructor who gives a take-home exam with a honor code time limit is an idiot.

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We have take home reviews (tests) with an honor code time limit here (Davidson College) and I'd say >90% follow the time limit.

We also have self-scheduled exams with no proctor and I'd say <1% cheat.

Re: take home exam situation
 

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Any instructor who gives a take-home exam with a honor code time limit is an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

lots of profs at my school give these. then again, we also have in-class exams without any supervision.

Re: take home exam situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any instructor who gives a take-home exam with a honor code time limit is an idiot.

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lots of profs at my school give these. then again, we also have in-class exams without any supervision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where are you in school, Ed?

Re: take home exam situation
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Any instructor who gives a take-home exam with a honor code time limit is an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

lots of profs at my school give these. then again, the entire graduating class manages a 4.0 .

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Re: take home exam situation
 

edtost,
where do u go and what's ur major?

most of my teachers still try to make ppl sit every other seat even though its impossible with the number of seats in the room.

Re: take home exam situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any instructor who gives a take-home exam with a honor code time limit is an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

lots of profs at my school give these. then again, the entire graduating class manages a 4.0 .

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

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not quite. new regulations require a maximum of 35% A's in coursework and 50% A's in independant work per semester, for each department. that said, i remember reading an article a couple of years ago stating that a 3.0 average wouldd have put a student in the bottom 10% of that year's graduating class.

edited to add detail.

Re: take home exam situation
 

Who honestly spends 8 hours completing a homework project?

Re: take home exam situation
 

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edtost,
where do u go and what's ur major?

[/ QUOTE ]

Princeton; Operations Research and Financial Engineering

Re: take home exam situation
 

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Who honestly spends 8 hours completing a homework project?

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there was a thread about longest time spent on an exam a while ago (started by JA Sucker?). Most responses were > 24hrs, though i imagine that was a fairly self-selective sample.

Re: take home exam situation
 

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If it's the case that people don't understand that it makes a difference, why don't you explain the difference? Or do you just like sounding pompous on the internet?

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He's not kidding when he says the grades don't matter, which is the difference (not that it justifies cheating as an undergrad) - there really should be no incentive to cheat. Maybe if you're on an NSF fellowship or something grades matter, but for the most part the only distinction that's important is whether you're failing or not. And even that's pretty flexible. Numerous friends of mine had a GPA below what the university nominally allows at some point, and all that happens is you get a letter saying "Knock it off" and there's zero enforcement. Even the guy I know who has failed basically every class and has been fired from a research position once is still here three years later. This is neglecting that to fail these classes generally requires you to be seriously not trying. The professors don't want to fail you, because it's a pain in the ass for everybody, and the classes aren't what you're really there for.

At least in the sciences, what matters when you're done is what research you've done, who you know, etc. Nobody gives a rat's ass about your grades. Maybe the story is different if you're going for a master's degree in spirituality or something like that, but I doubt it pretty highly.

EDIT: Is everybody's concern with not talking to other people simply that you'll get ratted out? Man, that's lame.

Re: take home exam situation
 

Nobody but yourself can track the time you use.

Talking to someone else is bad- this is the kind of thing that gets you ratted out.

Another interesting situation is if you would use reference material (looking up formulas, etc.) when the professor says that you cannot. I'm guessing that people who would take more time would use reference if necessary, I classify them as generally the same thing.

Re: take home exam situation
 

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Nobody but yourself can track the time you use.

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It depends. There was a distinction at my college between self-scheduled exams and take home exams. Self-scheduled meant you showed up at the registrar's office, checked in, and gave your exam back within the time limit that had been allotted. Take home was the same thing, for the most part, but you got 24 hours to return the test. The bulk of my final exams were administered in this way. Some of mine were take-home 4-hour finals on an honor system, a couple were week-long finals.

Re: take home exam situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
63% of you suck.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/456/cheat2un.jpg

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Yeah, I was really surprised by this. Really surprised at the number.

Personally, I would just not want to know that I cheated. I mean, even if the prof. didn't, I would.

Also, if there is one thing I have learned, its that grades mean jack [censored] when it comes to what you really learned. Of course, the world doesn't work that way, so I guess in the end, I'm not that surprised.

Re: take home exam situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
63% of you suck.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/456/cheat2un.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I was really surprised by this. Really surprised at the number.

Personally, I would just not want to know that I cheated. I mean, even if the prof. didn't, I would.

Also, if there is one thing I have learned, its that grades mean jack [censored] when it comes to what you really learned. Of course, the world doesn't work that way, so I guess in the end, I'm not that surprised.

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I'm not going to rush on something just because some self-important academic [censored] says I should. If I have 24 hours to get the thing turned back in, I'm going to do it at my own pace, and almost certainly wouldn't do the whole thing straight through with no breaks.

Re: take home exam situation
 

Anyone who cheats here should be thrown out of school. Especially if you're in a fcuking graduate programm for christ sakes. You're supposed to be studying something you love and motivated to learn.

Re: take home exam situation
 

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I'm not going to rush on something just because some self-important academic [censored] says I should. If I have 24 hours to get the thing turned back in, I'm going to do it at my own pace . . .

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The only reason you have to turn it in at all is because some self-important academic [censored] told you so. Why bother handing it in at all? I enjoy how self-righteous you seem to be about this. It's the man that's rushing you and preventing you from learning; when, of course, if it really mattered that much to you, you could hand the exam in for credit and then keep working on it on your own.

Re: take home exam situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to rush on something just because some self-important academic [censored] says I should. If I have 24 hours to get the thing turned back in, I'm going to do it at my own pace, and almost certainly wouldn't do the whole thing straight through with no breaks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. The Man's trying to keep you down, so [censored] The Man.

The Man also tells you to wear your seatbelt and drive on the right-hand side of the road.

Fight the power. Show him who's boss.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: take home exam situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I'm not going to rush on something just because some self-important academic [censored] says I should. If I have 24 hours to get the thing turned back in, I'm going to do it at my own pace . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

The only reason you have to turn it in at all is because some self-important academic [censored] told you so. Why bother handing it in at all? I enjoy how self-righteous you seem to be about this. It's the man that's rushing you and preventing you from learning; when, of course, if it really mattered that much to you, you could hand the exam in for credit and then keep working on it on your own.

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is that time limit is stupid, arbitrary, and unenforceable. If you were working, do you think one of your bosses would give you some task to do and say, "Have this on my desk by 3:00 tomorrow, but don't spend anymore than 2 hours working on it"? And no, the reason I have to turn it in at all is not because some professor said so. The reason I have to turn it in is that there are widely-accepted standards of what should be required to get a particular degree. If a professor decided to have no tests or papers or projects or anything else, and just have his lectures and give everybody an 84 at the end of the semester, my guess is that he'd catch a lot of [censored] over it in most fields of study.

Re: take home exam situation
 

Speaking as a former graduate student, academic honesty, especially in a graduate program, is very, very important. You could cheat and probably get away with it, but to quote the professor of a friend of mine, "you will never, ever feel good about it." As time goes by, the grade will be less and less important but the knowledge that you cheated will haunt you. And you can never tell anyone you did.

I honestly cannot imagine any of my former colleagues cheating on an exam like that. Not one of them.

Re: take home exam situation
 

[ QUOTE ]

The difference is that time limit is stupid, arbitrary, and unenforceable. If you were working, do you think one of your bosses would give you some task to do and say, "Have this on my desk by 3:00 tomorrow, but don't spend anymore than 2 hours working on it"? And no, the reason I have to turn it in at all is not because some professor said so. The reason I have to turn it in is that there are widely-accepted standards of what should be required to get a particular degree. If a professor decided to have no tests or papers or projects or anything else, and just have his lectures and give everybody an 84 at the end of the semester, my guess is that he'd catch a lot of [censored] over it in most fields of study.

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I think it is unfortunate that college has become universally expected when at all possible in the U.S., because it strikes me that people like you don't really belong there.

Re: take home exam situation
 

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The results of question 2 (on which I voted no) have more to do with not knowing who you can trust more than anything else IMO. If I had a friend in the class, I'm certain we'd collaborate on the exam, but just approaching someone in the class is really stupid. The 1 grade doesn't matter all that much, and it would really suck to get ratted out/kicked out of school over trying to save a little time or get a slightly better grade.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.
These two options have very different chances of getting caught/blackmailed and that makes a big difference.

Re: take home exam situation
 

I voted no, no, and 81-99%.

Be a man!
Do the right thing!

Re: take home exam situation
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to rush on something just because some self-important academic [censored] says I should. If I have 24 hours to get the thing turned back in, I'm going to do it at my own pace, and almost certainly wouldn't do the whole thing straight through with no breaks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. The Man's trying to keep you down, so [censored] The Man.

The Man also tells you to wear your seatbelt and drive on the right-hand side of the road.

Fight the power. Show him who's boss.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously, a time limit on a take-home exam is more analogous to a speed limit sign than it is to driving on the right side of the road or wearing a seat belt.