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newhizzle 12-30-2005 09:57 AM

Donking into Death
i just got moved to this table(like pretty soon after they hit the jackpot [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ), so i really dont have a read on anyone at this point.

DeathDonkey is in MP, i dont really know anything about how he plays yet other than his reputation of being slightly loose-aggressive and running well.

oceans 11 - 10 handed

i am BB with K3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

1 limper, DeathDonkey raises, cold/call, SB calls, i call, limper calls


SB checks, i check, limper checks, DD bets, cold/caller folds, SB folds, i call, limper calls

9 (there were two diamonds on the board, but i dont remember if they both came on the flop or if one came on the turn)

i donk, limper calls, DD raises, i fold.

perhaps a more interesting question - what if the limper folds and DD raises?

toss 12-30-2005 10:22 AM

Re: Donking into Death
One thing I dislike about your line is that the limper may be a poor player and DD holding this piece of info. that you don't have raises getting you to fold a better hand while being ahead of the limper a good amount. I think this is more applicable in live play since B&M usually means more fish. I'd rather checkraise the flop hoping to knock out some hands that can hurt you.

If the limper folds and DD raises, I'd call with the intention of check folding the river. I may be grossly wrong, but I can only see DD raising this turn with a worse hand if its with the intention of checking behind on the river.

DeathDonkey 12-30-2005 07:25 PM

Re: Donking into Death
Note the flop was K9x and turn was a Jack. I don't think there were 2 diamonds ever but maybe another suit (I had two diamonds so I would remember that I think).


newhizzle 12-30-2005 08:52 PM

Re: Donking into Death
note that i suck at remembering board cards

Luv2DriveTT 12-31-2005 01:43 AM

Re: Donking into Death
I can only see DD raising this turn with a worse hand if its with the intention of checking behind on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]


First of all, I don't like the donk considering the unknown limper. But the way you played it I'd fold too. If the limper folded and DD raised, I'd call with the intention of folding to a river bet.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

12-31-2005 04:08 AM

Re: Donking into Death
PREFLOP: Standard

FLOP: You should bet. This pot is large and 5 handed, Although your holding is vulnerable, you probably have the best hand at the moment. Your goal now is to find a way to eliminate the most players possible before the turn card. Since there is only one person between you and DD, but there are two behind him, you should bet out to pressure the guy in the middle to fold, and hope that DD will raise with a hand lesser than yours to force out the other two players. Becuze of your relative position on the flop, betting out is better than going for the checkraise IMO.
Now given that you checked and DD bets and everyone folds back to you, you should now raise to get that guy in the middle out, your hand plays much better in the long run if you are heads up with DD on the turn. I realize that if DD has a better hand than you, these strategies are just gonna cost you extra bets, but when the pot is large and multiway you must play aggressive in spots like these to protect your one pair vulnerable hand the times it is good.

Turn: Becuz there is a guy in the middle, I like your bet here, you hand really isnt strong enough to checkraise, so betting is the best way to put pressure on the guy in the middle. Given that you bet and the middle guy called and DD raised, This probably means you have 3 outs or less so you should fold. I highly doubt that DD is running some kind of a protected pot bluff-raise becuz he thinks you will lay this hand down. He cant read your mind so this is a good fold becuz when a player like DD raises the turn after two people are committed he will have the goods almost every time.

If you wouldve bet and the middle guy folded, and then DD raised I would probably call down since your turn donk is actually a sign of weakness that DD may take advantage of. He may pop you with QQ or AJ or a flushdraw/piece just to see if you can handle the pressure. On the river I would still call if DD bets becuz at this point the pot is very large and I dont know for sure if DD would check a weak made hand on the river, since he knows that your hand is weak based on how you played it. And he may be wise enough on your play to realize that you may fold the river to his bet becuz you would assume that he would check his weak made hands like AJ,QQ, which may lead him to bet these very hands trying to exploit this tendency. Becuz of this potential problem, I would check/call the river. Not saying its the right play but just telling you what I would do and why.

dave44 12-31-2005 04:40 PM

Re: Donking into Death
I'd attack on the flop with the two broadways putting all sorts of gutshots out there. I don't think he raises your bet with enough hands you're ahead of, so I'd check-raise. How is your line better? You get less in on the flop when I'd say you have good equity, and you let that limper after you draw for cheap.

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