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-   -   100 NL - JJ - coordinated flop (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=407180)

teamdonkey 12-29-2005 03:38 PM

100 NL - JJ - coordinated flop
 
$100NL 6max. villain hasn't done anything to make me notice him over a small number of hands, he is loose preflop (40/10 type). Effective stacks are around $90.

UTG limps, 2 folds, Hero (button) raises to $5 with JJ, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop ($11.50) - 10 9 8 rainbow

Villain bets $8, Hero raises to $24.

is this flop raise ok? What's your plan for the rest of this hand if he calls?

edit - added hero's position

tripp0807 12-29-2005 03:44 PM

Re: 100 NL - JJ - coordinated flop
 
I like the flop raise. You have a good hand with plenty of drawing opportunities, and his bet seems to be nothing more than a continuation with air - he might have AJ, but I think you'll quickly find out whether he has JQ or not (is he the kind of player that will play 67s UTG?). If he reraises all in, though, I'm probably done with the hand.

If he's got two pair or a set, he's probably going to call and check the turn. I'm probably checking behind...an all in from him on the turn, I'm done unless it is a 7 or Q.

unlucky513 12-29-2005 03:44 PM

Re: 100 NL - JJ - coordinated flop
 
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is this flop raise ok? What's your plan for the rest of this hand if he calls?

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depends on the turn card and what he does on the turn.

i don't like a raise on the flop, i just call.

unlucky513 12-29-2005 03:49 PM

Re: 100 NL - JJ - coordinated flop
 
[ QUOTE ]
his bet seems to be nothing more than a continuation with air

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why would he be c-betting in hero's pot?

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If he's got two pair or a set, he's probably going to call and check the turn. I'm probably checking behind...an all in from him on the turn, I'm done unless it is a 7 or Q.

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i'd have trouble calling an all in if the turn was a Q

poboy 12-29-2005 03:50 PM

Re: 100 NL - JJ - coordinated flop
 
Raising this flop is absolutely the right play. If he calls I'll check behind on the turn if given the chance and call a resonable bet on the river. If he leads at the turn I'm folding. JMO

tripp0807 12-29-2005 04:07 PM

Re: 100 NL - JJ - coordinated flop
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
his bet seems to be nothing more than a continuation with air

[/ QUOTE ]

why would he be c-betting in hero's pot?

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He called a raise preflop. He's first to act postflop. This is not "Hero's pot." It's still up for grabs. Call the bet what you like.

[ QUOTE ]
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If he's got two pair or a set, he's probably going to call and check the turn. I'm probably checking behind...an all in from him on the turn, I'm done unless it is a 7 or Q.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd have trouble calling an all in if the turn was a Q

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Lets say he calls Hero's raise and makes the nuts with a Q. It means he had KJ and limp-called PF. While this is semi-reasonable, you can't be scared of the nuts every hand.

JustToast 12-29-2005 04:25 PM

Re: 100 NL - JJ - coordinated flop
 
Im having a hard time figuring this hand out as well.

Will a 40/10 player lead the flop if he flopped a big hand against a PFR? Probably not, slowplaying / checkraising would be the line most of these guys would take (generalization but I dont have aggression figures here)

I think hero can take from that that villain likely does not have a big hand yet. Since hero is drawing at the good end of the straight as well and has an overpair, you're likely ahead. If we assume you're ahead and have position and the good side draw, why not let the turn come instead of trying to win the flop? This is not a board i want to play a huge pot in if possible.

As played, I think he's got a piece and a draw. Your correct turn line given that guess is to bet if he checks, and call if he bets. If he open pushes, i'm rethinking that read [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

unlucky513 12-29-2005 04:37 PM

Re: 100 NL - JJ - coordinated flop
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
his bet seems to be nothing more than a continuation with air

[/ QUOTE ]

why would he be c-betting in hero's pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

He called a raise preflop. He's first to act postflop. This is not "Hero's pot." It's still up for grabs. Call the bet what you like.

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when i raise preflop and get a caller, i have control of the pot - it's my pot. when i raise preflop and someone bets into me, i don't have control of the pot anymore.

raising an overpair w/ an open ended draw on THAT board after being bet into seems very donk-ish to me.

i'd just call the flop bet from villain. you have position and a decent hand to see another card with.

if villain calls your flop raise and leads the turn you're done with the hand. if you just call, you keep the pot small with your marginal holdings... hope this makes sense.

unlucky513 12-29-2005 04:39 PM

Re: 100 NL - JJ - coordinated flop
 
[ QUOTE ]
Since hero is drawing at the good end of the straight as well and has an overpair, you're likely ahead. If we assume you're ahead and have position and the good side draw, why not let the turn come instead of trying to win the flop? This is not a board i want to play a huge pot in if possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

well said.

poboy 12-29-2005 04:49 PM

Re: 100 NL - JJ - coordinated flop
 
[ QUOTE ]

when i raise preflop and get a caller, i have control of the pot - it's my pot. when i raise preflop and someone bets into me, i don't have control of the pot anymore.


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Which is why we now raise to regain the initiative

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raising an overpair w/ an open ended draw on THAT board after being bet into seems very donk-ish to me.


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So we both agree that we likely have the best hand and if we don't our outs are likely live, but you don't want any more $ in the pot?

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i'd just call the flop bet from villain. you have position and a decent hand to see another card with.


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Any card that helps your hand and doesn't help villian is likely killing your action.

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if villain calls your flop raise and leads the turn you're done with the hand. if you just call, you keep the pot small with your marginal holdings... hope this makes sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

not really...


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