Turn Play Guides?
 

I was looking over my stats today and my turn agression is over 3..

flop is 2.59 river is 2.65 but my turn is 3.03 Pretty sure that is to high?

VPIP: 20% PFR: 8% W$SD 49%

I am pretty sure my turn agression is directly influencing my W$SD since i may be over playing or trying to pump a pot up more than i should be with certain draws? So if there is a good link to turn play that'd be great, i looked in both my books and it seems turn play doesn't even come up in either of them as in a section or anything.

Heres hoping for help! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Turn Play Guides?
 

vpip could go down
pfr could go up but 8 is fine

if the flop af is below 3, turn and river should be above 3

w$sd is low, could be just be varience

though i'm not much of a stats guy... someone might have a better interpretation of this... how many hands is this over??

Re: Turn Play Guides?
 

6300 hands at .5/1

whenever i try to cut back my hands to drop my VPIP i find that my BB/100 drops along with it, i think my playing style dictates a few more hands, not alot mind you just a few, so i can be a bit more creative post flop?

I always thought AF 3+ was really high?

Re: Turn Play Guides?
 

6300 is nothing... keep reading keep posting replies to people

bb/100 means nothing over this length of time. nothing.
saying that your bb/100 changes when you play less/more hands over a small sample like this means even less.

don't pay attention to bb/100 (and i know this is hard to do)

an AF of 3 isn't high at all.

Re: Turn Play Guides?
 

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vpip could go down

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6300 is nothing

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an AF of 3 isn't high at all

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I'll disagree with these comments. Your stats look fine, I wouldn't worry too much about them. 6000+ hands is plenty for VP$IP and PFR to give a good estimate. I will agree that with this small sample, you shouldn't draw any conclusions about the effect on your win rate of varying your starting hands.

Re: Turn Play Guides?
 

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an AF of 3 isn't high at all

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alright, i'll admit that was a slightly bold statement, but you'll frequently find players here with 4+. It's high, but its not very high.

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6300 is nothing

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was in reference to bb/100 numbers. i agree that vpip and pfr will have come together by then

as for vpip, i just said it could... it could stay there and be fine... all i was saying is your at the high end of whats considered optimal.

Re: Turn Play Guides?
 

ok good i thought i read somewhere that 3+ was maniac or something and i was like "oh crap"

but should i be more agressive on flop rather than turn? I think i try to be "sneaky" with made flop hands and just call and raise turn for more money, which gets me in trouble alot with people drawing out on me.

would that make sense with my #s?

Re: Turn Play Guides?
 

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an AF of 3 isn't high at all

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alright, i'll admit that was a slightly bold statement, but you'll frequently find players here with 4+

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An AF of 4+ is reeeaaally high. I doubt there are as many people here with numbers like that as you think, and it's not something I'd aim for on purpose. I'd tend to suspect someone with those stats was either pushing too hard postflop or folding too many hands that they had odds to draw with.

(This would make an interesting poll subject.)

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as for vpip, i just said it could... it could stay there and be fine... all i was saying is your at the high end of whats considered optimal.

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I think it's fine for 0.5/1. I doubt lowering it a few points would have much effect on his win rate, and I've seen people argue that in fact it might be giving up some marginally profitable hands. (I won't comment too much more about that since personally mine is lower, but I think he'd be better off working on postflop than fine-tuning a few % points preflop.)

Re: Turn Play Guides?
 

also my folding #'s if those are important:
14% no fold
71% pre flop
8.5% flop
4% turn
2% river

Re: Turn Play Guides?
 

I always thought you were supposed to be more aggressive on the flop than any other streets. Someone please clarify if not. My numbers look like this:

flop - 2.77
turn - 2.55
river - 2.13

These are over ~15k hands of .25/.50 and .50/1.