Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

Villian is smart and has been inactive for the last few orbits, ~35/15/3. We havent been directly involved in any hands.
I see this as WA/WB, but still feel like it is way too passive for my liking. How do you play this board/opponent?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP ($671.95)
CO ($217.75)
Hero ($242.80)
SB ($248.95)
BB ($200)
UTG ($166)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, MP calls $2, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $12</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $30</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG folds, MP folds, CO calls $18.

Flop: ($67) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($67) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets $50</font>, Hero calls $50.

River: ($167) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $167

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

36$ pf..near-minraise 30$ sucks

I like the check
I like the call too
Bet 80~100 on river, fold to c-r

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

I didnt want it to be &gt;$30 back to PFR, i think PF is fine.
What hand calls a river bet here?

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

i think u can sneak a vb in on the river, something like 1/2 to 2/3 pot for work...

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

[b] what hand calls a river bet here?[b]
His range is pretty limited i think

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think u can sneak a vb in on the river, something like 1/2 to 2/3 pot for work...

[/ QUOTE ]

hell no

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

Why would a jack or a full house value bet the turn then go for a check raise against someone who has not shown any aggression in this hand? AK could've been taking a shot after you showed weakness on the flop or AQ could've missed a check raise or maybe a caution KQ...I think all those hands are likely and could call a small river bet.

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

[ QUOTE ]
what hand calls a river bet here?

[/ QUOTE ]

AK, AQ, KQ, maybe smaller PPs.

u r probably right that he has a small range to call bets, but i think he probably has a Q or a hand that he'd like to show down that doesnt include a J.

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

I realize his hand range is limited, but river check makes his hand seem real weak. he can have my valuebet money if he can check a better hand on river.

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

This razor thin value bet mentality is dangerous when you get into games with players capable of figuring out what you are doing and then pounding you with a big raise.

Alternatively they can check raise you for value on the river abusively.

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

Will villain really try for a check-raise bluff here on a JJQK board against the preflop reraiser? I think it's very very unlikely unless you have a long history against him. I like a value bet of about $90 here. He's not going to raise you and put you in a tough position with a hand he wants to show down such as AQ, KQ or AK, and if he wanted to bluff, he would had been the one leading the river.

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

[ QUOTE ]
This razor thin value bet mentality is dangerous when you get into games with players capable of figuring out what you are doing and then pounding you with a big raise.

Alternatively they can check raise you for value on the river abusively.

[/ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed)

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

I would push all in, make it look like you have AK and are trying to steal the pot - get his AQ or KQ to call you and "pick you off". Clearly without a long history against you he wont check the river holding a jack or a boat.

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

was referring to stu unger

clever though

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would push all in, make it look like you have AK and are trying to steal the pot - get his AQ or KQ to call you and "pick you off". Clearly without a long history against you he wont check the river holding a jack or a boat.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why exactly is he calling to 'pick me off'? My range is pretty small if im going to reraise him pf . I love to overbet/push, but i dont see any of the hands you said calling a push here.


I saw the river as pretty simple in this hand, I dont see him calling with any hand i beat regardless of bet size. I was hoping this hand would generate some discussion on the turn call as well.

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would push all in, make it look like you have AK and are trying to steal the pot - get his AQ or KQ to call you and "pick you off". Clearly without a long history against you he wont check the river holding a jack or a boat.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like it.

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would push all in, make it look like you have AK and are trying to steal the pot - get his AQ or KQ to call you and "pick you off". Clearly without a long history against you he wont check the river holding a jack or a boat.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

is this a joke

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

Unless you have a great read on him, he's not checking the river with a hand you cannot beat. Your chances of having the best hand are huge, and I really think AK, AQ and especially KQ will call a half pot bet. I don't think you have to worry about being bluff raised here. You re-raised him preflop and the board is all over a pre-flop re-raisers range..he has to think it's possible you have a boat...but that doesn't mean he won't call a small value bet.

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why would a jack or a full house value bet the turn then go for a check raise against someone who has not shown any aggression in this hand? AK could've been taking a shot after you showed weakness on the flop or AQ could've missed a check raise or maybe a caution KQ...I think all those hands are likely and could call a small river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could see AJ/JT playing it this way if he made it to the flop. Villian has to be concerned that Hero has QQ/KK which are certainly within his hand range. Even if he has QJ and was trapping on the flop, he vb's the turn and now that K gives him pause. I'm not sure what calls a nice sized river vb from Hero that he beats. I agree with the folks who say it's kinda thin. You're probably ahead, but I want to see the showdown.

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

As for results, villian had AK of diamonds and MHIG

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

If your pre-flop reraising range is only QQ+ and AK, then I agree that it's a check because he isn't calling with anything that you beat. But if it's wider, like TT+, AQ+, and occasional SCs and PPs, then I think it warrents a value bet because when a smart opponent checks river after betting the turn, a lot of the time it means he's thinking, "I have a good hand, but if I bet I probably won't get called by any hand that I beat, and I don't want to get bluff-raised off my hand, so I will check-call a reasonable bet and maybe snap off a bluff from him."

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

[ QUOTE ]
36$ pf..near-minraise 30$ sucks

I like the check
I like the call too
Bet 80~100 on river, fold to c-r

[/ QUOTE ]

CO ($217.75)
Hero ($242.80)

PF raise $30, called

CO ($187.75)
Hero ($212.80)
Pot $64
Flop bet $50, called


CO ($137.75)
Hero ($162.80)
Pot $164
Turn $0


CO ($137.75)
Hero ($162.80)
Pot $164
River

You want him to bet min $80 into a $164 pot and fold to the C/R --
164(P) + 80 (H) + 80(VC) + 57(VR) = $381

So you want him to fold a $381 pot for $57? And it gets a little more "odd" if he bets the $100 because then he is folding a $401 pot for $37.

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

[ QUOTE ]
My range is pretty small if im going to reraise him pf

[/ QUOTE ]

And clearly AK is within that range

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

I would have played this hand the same way.

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

Your line seems fine, what range do you put he on at this level?

Re: Never felt so passive with AA on all streets, 200nl
 

He's got 1/2 pot bet left and you've given him no reason to believe that you will bet the river. If he has you beat, he should have used his last chance to get the rest of his money in. However, he's not going to call off the rest of his chips with TT,99, perhaps AK or AQ. It's close, but I would check behind too.