KK hand at 5-10
 

SB is 65/0/.2/103
mp2 is 33/12/1.4/201
Hero is utg.

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hero [ Kd Ks ]

Hero raises, MP2 calls, SB calls, BB calls.

** Dealing Flop ** [ Qd, 5c, 2c ] (pot: 8 sb)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, SB calls, BB folds, Hero 3bets, MP2 calls, SB calls.


** Dealing Turn ** [ 7c ] (pot: 8.5 bb)
Hero bets, MP2 folds, SB raises, Hero ...


The SB is super passive after about 100 hands... what's the line?

Re: KK hand at 5-10
 

Fold. If he's super-passive, he hit the flush, you're dead. Most passive players only raise on the turn with the nuts.

Of course, being the idiot I am, I would peel him down.

Re: KK hand at 5-10
 

Had a guy tell me check turn, call river was a much better play. This is absurd right?

Re: KK hand at 5-10
 

[ QUOTE ]
Had a guy tell me check turn, call river was a much better play. This is absurd right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like it.

Anyway, what can this super passive player be calling your flop bet with? Flush draw sure, but I can also see him calling with a Q and a good kicker. I think he would raise with AQ here. So when the turn brings another club I fire out again and if he checks raise me I fold. Bet/Fold the turn is what I do here.

Re: KK hand at 5-10
 

If pot was just a little bit smaller it would be an easy laydown.
Since the pot is big it's a tough laydown...but still a laydown.

Re: KK hand at 5-10
 

why is it absurd?

Re: KK hand at 5-10
 

[ QUOTE ]
Had a guy tell me check turn, call river was a much better play. This is absurd right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking the turn with an overpair seems too weak-tight to me. Don't give some random club a free shot at going runner-runner. If you get raised, then you can make your read on what to do. SB did coldcall two bets on the flop...suggests draw to me. Here it seems you are beaten by Mr. Passive who just woke up and checkraised you. If that's your read, then fold.

ScottieK

Re: KK hand at 5-10
 

I like the flop 3-bet, you have the equity. If the MP2 were more aggressive I might call the flop raise and check raise the turn, although we won't want to get the turn checked through.

Turn: That check raise sucks. If we had the Kc then this would be an easy call. We are drawing dead to a flush, have two outs against a set and 8 outs against 2 pair, and of course are ahead of an likely bluff or something like a pair with the Ace of clubs.

Have you ever seen the SB do anything tricky? I find that some passive players will bluff more than their AF indicates.

Anyways, the SB is so passive that I think it is unlikely that he would check raise two pair or a pair with the nut flush draw. We are getting 6-1 to call the turn and river (12 bets EPS), which I think we are behind more than 15% of the time.

Bottom line I would fold, only b/c of SB is so passive.

Re: KK hand at 5-10
 

[ QUOTE ]
Had a guy tell me check turn, call river was a much better play. This is absurd right?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to bet it here in my opinion. You can't give the 2 players unlimited odds especially if they have 1 high club. Also, if someone is on a draw and misses, you have to collect while they will still put money in the pot. You may also be able to fold a J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] with a bet.

Re: KK hand at 5-10
 

folds.