What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

They are winning the top few places every week in the stars tourney. This is very unusual as they make up a small % of the contestants. They must be incredible players over there to overcome such variability and fare so well week after week.

Unreal,

Indy

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

FWIW, a British player I met in Vegas believed that they are masters of on-line collusion.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

If you lived in that landof ice and snow, you'd play a lot more poker. And you'd take it much more seriously too, because poker may be your ticket out of there. Don't Swedes have a redicullus tax rate too? Perhaps gambling income isn't taxed? Scandanavian players who see this, can you tell us about your tax situation?

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

I'm not sure how much more poker I'd play with all those hot swedish girls walking around. This effect though, is incredible given how few of them there are and how much variance there is in an online tourney like this. I'm suprised that there aren't posts everywhere and further investigations into this. They are either running an excellent school of poker over there or they are big cheaters. I'm just not sure.

Indy

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

Ok, here is the word from a swedish.

Why are we so good? It's in our nature. We have always been one of the tops in whatever we do. As for poker, thats not an exception. Soon enough, one of us will take down a big tournament that isn't online. For Norwegian players... I have no idea... Nah...

From my point of view this could simply be that the tournaments are held in perfect times for us, from 8 in the evening and forward which means really few distractions if any at all. No phone calls, no door bell going off, nothing... at all. I think that really helps out alot of players, I am one of them that plays alot better when I focus 100% and dont have any distactions in my poker room.

The interest here in Sweden have really exploded too lately because of a massive tv interest with WSOP, Nordic Bet 24 Poker and Pokermiljonen showing weekly on TV and alot of ads on TV makes people go online and since the tournaments are on such suitable times, I ain't surprised to see alot of us do good in these.

About the tax thingys, yes they are at around 30% and even more for some off us and Poker ain't taxable here so thats a big plus.

The awesome chicks is the only problem that keeps me from winning the ME tho.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

Heaven,

Even if you guys are much better than other players, you must admit that not that many scandanavian players enter the tourney so overcoming the variance and making 3-4 out of 9 FT spots every week is mathematically suspicious.

Indy

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

I don't think they make up such a small percentage as you think. Just check out the last completed Stars $215. You see them all over the place. Not just in the top spots.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

Seriously, colluding in a big MTT doesn't really give a big edge does it? You are extremely unlike to end up at the same table right? I really don't think swedes cheat more than other nationalities. I know alot of pokerplaying friends, none of whom cheat. All of whom are winning players. (except this one pathetic guy :P)

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

Scandinavian countries have very high standards for education and that sort of stuff. People are not superstitious and religions have rather small part. Scandinavian people understand the point; you want to be good, you have to train.

And this goes for all scandinavian countries, poker is just so much bigger in Sweden than in Finland or Norway, so that's why Swedes are little a head now. In Finland poker is just starting to grow (WPT started this autumn) and if I'm not totally wrong (I very well may be), poker is illegal in Norway.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

Sweden may be a tiny fraction the world, but it has produced quite a few successful hockey players, soccer players, tennis players, golfers, directors, actors, authors, models, rockbands, car brands and what have you. And the Nobel prize. FFS, we've even had a heavyweight boxing champion.

Sweden doesn't outmuscle anyone, but it has a long tradition of using all available resources to the fullest. Plus, a high % of the swedes are overeducated and underpaid which probably is an important incentive to re-read SSH yet another time.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

nice post. I've always thought along the same lines in explaining European success in Pstars tourneys (the only site that gives location.) I doubt collusion is a factor or computer hacking or whatever else conspiracy theorists like Indiana come up with. The European players we are exposed to just play better poker. They don't pull donk moves, and they make +EV plays all the time.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

Javla! Ni ar sa roligt!!! Inte vara sa arlig!!

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Javla! Ni ar sa roligt!!! Inte vara sa arlig!!

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes little sense [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, the first post of my part was a sarcastic joke to my neighbour Norway but I think the rest is somewhat true and what Jusander said too.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you lived in that landof ice and snow, you'd play a lot more poker. And you'd take it much more seriously too, because poker may be your ticket out of there. Don't Swedes have a redicullus tax rate too? Perhaps gambling income isn't taxed? Scandanavian players who see this, can you tell us about your tax situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

In Sweden we have the highest taxes in the world. Everything is taxed in some way; alcohol, food, tobaco, and to a certain degree poker. If we play on stars I think we should pay tax, but if we win on a europesite, like Prima, its taxfree. The same thing goes live; in Europe free, at lasvegas taxed.
There is a big discussion about poker and taxes. Swedish pros want to pay standard taxes on their winnings, like an ordinary job, claiming its not about luck like other forms of gambling. If they win that discussion it would be alot cheaper to win outside of Europe since the gambling taxes are much higher.

Another issue is the Swedish gambling monopoly. The only place to play live legally is at the state facillity "Casino Cosmopol", with a killer rake. This could explain why many Swedes gamble online.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

We have to pay taxes on stars? Oh....

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

As Norman Chad said, "It's dark half the year."

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

[ QUOTE ]
We have to pay taxes on stars? Oh....

[/ QUOTE ]

No I dont think so, its an English site isnt?
Sorry about that.
But we "have to" pay on Party. They only check highstakes gamblers, however.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

The scandinavian countries are generally well-educated, and almost everybody has internet access - good for breeding succesful poker players.
The minimum wage is high (much higher than the States for example), which makes it easier for people to start a bankroll.
Before the poker craze, many people had been grinding the internet casino bonuses, which made the jump to poker quick.

Sweden is the leading scandinavian country ATM, but I think Denmark will be next [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
There are lots of very good players lurking in the mid-high stakes, waiting to get their real breakthrough.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We have to pay taxes on stars? Oh....

[/ QUOTE ]

No I dont think so, its an English site isnt?
Sorry about that.
But we "have to" pay on Party. They only check highstakes gamblers, however.

[/ QUOTE ]
At least in Finland you only have to pay taxes if the country where the 'site' is located doesn't belong to EEA (Europen Economic Area, Which basicly means EU + Norway, Island and Liechtenstein).

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

Australians would figure more prominently if the tournaments werent all at 4am in the morning.

Regards, Punter

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

I think one reason why Norwegians do good is because poker has always been considered a game of skill in Norway, not a game of luck. That motivates very many players to study the game really hard (when they lose they go read a book instead of complaining about bad beats). It has also become socially acceptable to i.e. drop out of college and play poker professionally.

In addition, without being racistic, I think we tilt a bit less than many other nationalities. Partly due to our upbringing that sort of is focused on controlling aggression and partly due to the fact that for a Norwegian player losing his entire bankroll in poker is not the end of the world, since the social security system is good.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

And I have to add, I know maybe something like 20 Norwegian pros, and I have never heard of any of them colluding in any way, so I doubt that this is widespread.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

It's funny, I was thinking the same thing yesterday about the scandanivans and how they do some well in the stars 215. I just tend to think that there are a lot of them playing and they are highly aggressive and skilled. Didn't Carlos M. win the thing one week and place like 3rd the next? Can't variance be kind to a talented bunch (like 100/3000), each week? Maybe, maybe not, but collusion seems unlikely to me.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

I've never placed in a higher buy-in tourney so I must be the worst player in Scandinavia. Seriously, I believe it's in our nature to be patient. Also, we have good education from early on. Some friends of mine took a year at high school in USA/Canada at the age of 16/17 and they were all top students in their class. They even excelled most of their class in English lessons (spelling and grammar). Though, we have to pay a filthy amount of money in taxes and although I have a master degree in computer science, I have to rely on poker to give me that extra cash needed. An American friend of mine moved back to California after completing his studies in Sweden. He earns way above six figures/year while my salary is merely twice our cleaner's salary. Yes, people with low income still have a decent amount while those with education are underpaid, compared to other countries that is.

As someone already pointed out, we have always had good athletes. How come Sweden, with a total population of 9 million (compared to 300 million in USA), currently occupies the top two spots on the NHL leaderboard? I don't know, especially since it's considered "bad" to believe in yourself. At least you shouldn't talk about it.

A combination of the things above is what drives us to be better at poker. In my case, a job and a social life prevents me from playing enough tournies to improve quickly. Though, as the winter approaches, I now have to stay inside playing poker to avoid constant attacks from polarbears. Those suckers keep lurking around my house til late February [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Mission: To learn how to push small edges early on (Thanks, woodguy)

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

The Swedes seem to tear up Ladbrokes as well, and are always well represented on the Poker Million which is a ladbrokes based live tournament. I think its their nature and a cavalier agressive playing style that is hard to cope with.

Sweden is probably the place for metal music these days as well, must be somthing in the water or maybe to do with how much leisure time they have to have indoors.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

[ QUOTE ]
The Swedes seem to tear up Ladbrokes as well..

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I found this report from Ladbrokes. It shows return for every invested dollar.

1 Finland 1,01060
2 Canada 1,00788
3 China 1,00569
4 Austria 1,00058
5 Sweden 1,00049

Age Return
18-25 0,997
26-30 0,989
31-35 0,980
36-40 0,979
41-45 0,973
45-50 0,962
Over 50 0,960

Female 99,39%
Male 98,65%

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

The chinese can play at Ladbrookes?

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

BULLOCKS!! No more cheating, if any, here then elsewhere, but true dedication and firm belief that poker is a skill game, percistent ability to study study study and play with hearth and mind. An oil technology university in USA sendt lectureres over to norway to investigate the term"skippertak" which roughly transelates into the ability to get shitloads of work done acurately, with focus, and fast over a short period of time. Ideal for projects and the sorts. The reason was that scandinavian students seem to get the best of their speartime-going to parties etc, and the best of their studies-above average results as a group, due to not letting anything distract them when the [censored] hits the fan and exams/presentation is due. I believe that an asset many scandinavians posess is the ability to not go halfhearted about an interest-time is to valuable, so if one is going to dedicate time it is done with conviction and dedication and few believ in second best. On the outside many appear to not want to front themselves with words, but speak with action and everybody wants to become winners at their respective fields.

I am sure you will find players that dont fare so well, and it is also a question of how long they have played( maybe you didnt notice them when they where at the wrong side of the scale?), and I believe that scandinavians who loose and dont comitt them selves to poker, rather quit then hang around as donks hoping to score the lucky one

For what it is worth, Stokken. Indy what you preach/question is BS !!!

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

They dominate more than just your sunday tournament.

Just look at any high stakes limit or no limit table. Its Prahlad versus Scandinavia.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

There are obvious flaws with these arguments. No doubt scandia players are better but unless they make up at least 1/4th of the field then there is no way that they occupy this many spots at the FT every week w/o colluding. Of course, my estimate of 100/3500 entrants could be too low. The variance in the game is just too high to allow such results. We need a clear idea of how many there are in the big game to know the p-value more accurately. By the way, why don't these guys win the WSOP, WPT, etc etc??? Even the EPT is won by dutch/brits/americans/others etc.

Indy

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

[ QUOTE ]
The European players we are exposed to just play better poker. They don't pull donk moves, and they make +EV plays all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree with the basic premise that the elite Scandanavian players seem to be doing disproportionately well in the big tourneys and high-stakes online games, there are plenty of Swedish/Norwegian donks as well. I've played many low-stakes tourneys at 24hPoker, where almost all of the players are Scandanavian. The €5 buy-in Swedish players are just as donkish as the $5 buy-in American players at Stars and Party. I've played Omaha H/L and 2-7 Triple Draw games at 24h where half the players don't even understand the rules of the game-not understanding that the low takes half the pot in a H/L game or not knowing that deuce-to-seven is a lowball game.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

Compared to the size of the field, Scandinavian players do very well in European live tournaments. Not many of the good players go to US to play WPT etc., they are also very rare in WSOP.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

[ QUOTE ]
The €5 buy-in Swedish players are just as donkish as the $5 buy-in American players at Stars and Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definately, they are even donkier. Poker boom now in Scandinavia, with people with starting out in $5-tournies without knowing if flush beats straight [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

As for Finland. Good education might have something to do with it.
The biggest thing at least for me is that poker offers very good way to earn money and big % of Scandinavian players play only for the money. It's very hard to earn over 50k from a normal job even before the taxes, and the taxes are just huge in finland, in some cases >50%.
Poker offers me way to make very nice money at young age tax-free.

So I think the money motivates us more then guys for example from USA.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Compared to the size of the field, Scandinavian players do very well in European live tournaments. Not many of the good players go to US to play WPT etc., they are also very rare in WSOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would they when they get taxed at up to 30%!!! Unless they can find a British player to back them and thus avoid the tax then it doesn't seem worth their while.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, why don't these guys win the WSOP, WPT, etc etc??? Even the EPT is won by dutch/brits/americans/others etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

Eh? There were 3 guys from Sweden in the top 20 at WSOP 2005. That's pretty good considering not many of us make the trip to Las Vegas to play. Martin De Knijff took down last years biggest WPT price.

EPT final tables this year:
Barcelona - 3 from Sweden, 1 from Denmark (some Gus Hansen [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]) and 1 from Finland
London - 1 from Norway
Baden - 3 from Norway, 1 each from Sweden, Denmark and Finland (6 Nordic players out of 8)
Dublin - Swedish players in 1st and 2nd place

EPT must be rigged or something...

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

So, are there any objective rankings of the average education or intelligence level of Scandanavians or Sweden/Norway vs. other parts of the world?

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

[ QUOTE ]
No doubt scandia players are better but unless they make up at least 1/4th of the field then there is no way that they occupy this many spots at the FT every week w/o colluding.

[/ QUOTE ]

A few years ago in NASCAR, some people were saying there is now way Jeff Gordon could be winning so often without cheating. They were checking his tires and all kinds of other crazy things but if my memory serves me, they never found anything at all.

Turns out him and his team were working harder and smarter than everybody else... I suspect that is what's going on here as well.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

[ QUOTE ]
They are winning the top few places every week in the stars tourney. This is very unusual as they make up a small % of the contestants. They must be incredible players over there to overcome such variability and fare so well week after week.

Unreal,

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

I have wondered about this for some time. I'm pretty sure the ratio of high finishes from Norwegian players for the Sunday Stars tournament is just way too high.

But of course we need data to back up these claims. Just to let you know that I have had the same question for the last 2 years.

Re: What\'s up with Swedish/Norweigen players???
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you lived in that landof ice and snow, you'd play a lot more poker. And you'd take it much more seriously too, because poker may be your ticket out of there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Were you kidding there? Who needs a ticket out of the highest ranked countires in education, economy and pretty much every ranking known to man? Scandinavian countries are the prototype that every other country in the world should aspire to copy, even (and maybe especially) the great United State of America.