Turn Decision #2
 

No read on opponent.

Party Poker Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) 10/20FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero?

Is this a clear fold - why or why not?
If you do not fold - what action would you take and with what in mind?

Re: Turn Decision #2
 

I call down from the first flop bet. Either he has you crushed or you have 3-6 outs so there's no reason not to let him keep betting a worse hand. Given the way you played it I fold the turn without reads. I hate to give up a pair in a steal situation but I think you're beat by a sane opponent the majority of the time and you have no reason to assume he's a LAG (unless this is at 5/10 then I could go either way. 10/20+ I'd see a showdown for sure)

Re: Turn Decision #2
 

I dont play 10/20, but heres my take anyways:


Generally its good to call down here, because given the villains 3betting range, you often have him reverse-dominated. If you are behind a large pocket pair, you still have nearly 5 outs to improve. Your 8 to 1 oddds to improve when behind combined with the good chance that you are infact ahead means that you really shouldnt fold.

Also, if an ace hits the board giving you 2-pair, expect him to pay off your raise on the river easily.

Re: Turn Decision #2
 

I see it's 10/20 now so I'd call down. Nice ninja edit [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Turn Decision #2
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you are behind a large pocket pair, you still have nearly 5 outs to improve. Your 8 to 1 oddds to improve when behind combined with the good chance that you are infact ahead means that you really shouldnt fold.

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I agree with you. So then it becomes a question of how to get to the river in the best shape possible. On the flop I believe that I should just call his lead unless I’m prepared to cap if he 3 bets.

I think I probably complicated later decisions by raising on the flop. When I raise, I opened the door for him to represent strength cheaply by 3 betting on a cheap street. (in other words, if I raise here, then I really should cap when he 3 bets, so I screwed myself on the flop)

If I just call the flop…
-Just calling the turn is still a legitimate option (sort of inducing / picking off a bluff w/ a probable 5 outer to go with it - if I am behind)... granted the pot will be smaller.
-I also have the option of raising the turn after just calling his flop bet (sort of mimicking a slow-play) planning to fold to a 3 bet.

I've been questioning all my decisions lately where I am calling and calling and calling throughout a hand. Maybe this is one spot where calling down the whole way with a pair would have been o.k.

In general though, I have had success with a raise or fold strategy in short / semi short games - combined with a tight pf game. Now I need to spend some time looking really hard at my flop play to start refining my game a bit more. Come to think of it...I'm going to start breaking down most hands I submit here to flop decisions only for a while... see where that gets me.

[ QUOTE ]
I call down from the first flop bet. Either he has you crushed or you have 3-6 outs so there's no reason not to let him keep betting a worse hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the above advice, it’s really down to earth. This is exactly why I’m going to start looking at flop play only for a while… thanks for the responses.

Re: Turn Decision #2
 

The only time I don't raise the flop is when I'm going to raise the turn. That said, I'd raise the flop if oyu plan to fold to a turn 3bet, because you don't something like another diamond to fall and him 3bet thinking you are semibluffing, or have him 3bet something like JJ with J of diamonds and you fold a 4 outer. The king doesn't change too much and isn't really a scare card. I'd call down.

Re: Turn Decision #2
 

I don't play this high, but I think he has a pair 99-AA most of the time. That said, I usually fold here, he could be on a flush draw but I generally let this go.

Re: Turn Decision #2
 

What is your image at the table? Villain may be seeing a steal, and attempting a bluff at you on a ragged flop. I've been having trouble with preflop raises and ragged flops lately.

When the king hits I hate calling down, but for reasons stated earlier (reverse domination, 8-1 odds)it may be correct.

Re: Turn Decision #2
 

Most sane opponents arent 3betting that flop without TPTK an overpair or AK and of course a flushdraw.

Since he 3bet preflop I'd tend to put him on an overpair or AK so I think its an easy fold.

When you get a better read then adjust accordingly.

Re: Turn Decision #2
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since he 3bet preflop I'd tend to put him on an overpair or AK so I think its an easy fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say villian's range is fairly large here considering he's 3-betting a button raise.