SSH and tight low limit games.
 

Hey guys,

Quick question: Is the advice in SSH applicable to tight 2/4 games?

I'm new to limit, just started ... but from playing at Absolute, Cryptos, and even Pokerrom, I rarely see flop percentages over 26%.

Actually, at Absolute they were as low as 16%.

The book is fantastic, really opened my eyes to the game, but I'm not sure how much of the advice is relevant for the games I find myself in.

Any thoughts, or book recommendations would be appreciated. Tight games tend to thwart me.

Best,
Zim

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

What other books have you read?

b

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

zim, find some other sites. that's way too low flop %'s (was wondering VPIP or flop% seen - either way, those are pretty low).

i posted something similar a few weeks ago.

some books good for tighter poker = ciaffone (MLP, i think is title - haven't read but people love it), matt maroon (not well=known, but cheap, very straight-forward, and he talks about very tight games).

i'm sure there are others too..... but i've played loose passive mostly and i too had a hard time vs. very tight/aggressive

gary carson book is excellent (never talked about here???) in one piece of advice: he says game selection is #1 above anything else. so he'd probably say find another site (no poker tracker, fewer bonuses, maybe more europeans are factors that i think lead to softer tables). i know people will think i'm crazy about the bonuses, but i'd rather soft tables than having to deal with multi-tabling bonus clearers (and yes, i'd be one too) any day

hope that helps!!!

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

Hey Sm,

Thanks. Yes, I often find myself caught between the best bonus ... and softest games.

Absolute, before they changed their bonus structure, was filled full of "bonus whores" (to use the unflattering term), and even Pokerroom seems pretty tight.

That said when a 100%, $600 bonus will clear at a rate of about $5-$6 a table per hour at 2/4 ... it's rather tough to pass up.

Particularly for a limit newbie who, as of this posting, is averaging only about 1 BB/100 hands after 2700 hands.

However, I did swing by PokerStars ... and was blown away by the loose action. Did quite well for myself, and contemplated only playing there, even with no bonus.

(some have said that the rake is equivalent to a 40% rakeback at Party ... I haven't confirmed this)

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. It is definitely on my mind.

Best,
Zim

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

Hey Bernie,

Started with WLLH (2nd edition) a while back, played a little ... didn't really gel, so I turned my attention to NL.

Played around with NL, low stakes ($25-$50) for a year, flipped through Super System, but after making a few thousand, losing a few thousand, I decided to start at the beginning again ... and with Limit.

Bought GSIH and played a few thousand hands of $1 and $2 limit, enough to find myself breaking even, then plunged into SSH about three nights ago.

Decided to give up on trying to play 10 tables at once, and plunked myself down at 2 tables (2/4 on the pokerroom network) and actually watch the action.

Find myself enjoying the game much more now.

I think that there is a considerable step from GSIH to SSH, and I still question the general attitude that low limit games are filled with loose, uneducated players. Perhaps in B&M casinos, but online ... tight play is more the norm, I find.

Thanks for any feedback, looks like from your number of posts you've been around for sometime. All recommendations would be appreciated.

Cheers!
Zim

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the advice given by SSHE even if the games are tight

Only thing is, that the preflop chart become a bit too loose, but if you adjust those, then you are on a roll

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Started with WLLH (2nd edition) a while back, played a little ... didn't really gel, so I turned my attention to NL.

Played around with NL, low stakes ($25-$50) for a year, flipped through Super System, but after making a few thousand, losing a few thousand, I decided to start at the beginning again ... and with Limit.

Bought GSIH and played a few thousand hands of $1 and $2 limit, enough to find myself breaking even, then plunged into SSH about three nights ago.


[/ QUOTE ]

Cool. One thing about most books is that they're split up into the streets. So if you have to, go street by street. I'd recommend getting preflop down first. Play a bit tighter than recommended until you have the main positional hands down and are comfortable with them postflop. Then expand your starters a bit. WLLH is good. Another thing is to get involved in the strategy forums. This will accelerate the learning process and answer most questions you have on many of the main concepts. Find a hand, respond to it, then check your thinking against the other responders. Don't be afraid to be wrong and looking foolish. Others will help point you in the right direction. We've all been there. It does take time and effort. It generally doesn't happen too fast to develop. It can take awhile to 'click'.

Switching from n/l to limit and back and forth could hinder you. They are different in many aspects. I've found it was easier to learn limit, then once I had that down, go to other forms. It just seemed to crossover better. Even then, I had to watch for leaks that tended to develop when switching from n/l back to limit.(primarily developed looseness preflop)

[ QUOTE ]
I think that there is a considerable step from GSIH to SSH, and I still question the general attitude that low limit games are filled with loose, uneducated players. Perhaps in B&M casinos, but online ... tight play is more the norm, I find.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd reread GSIH then read WLLH. Make sure you understand most of what you're reading. You should eventually be able to explain reasonably why you made each move you did during a hand.

The games can start to tighten up around 2-4 or higher online(UB. not sure about the other sites). I've found many online 3-6 to 5-10 games(UB) play tougher than 10-20 or 20-40 live. However, playing those tighter tables for lower limits is a cheaper education for tougher games.

Play the lower games(1-2 and lower) until you can beat it. (fwiw, my latest roll I started on the .01-.02 tables) It may not take that long to convince/prove to yourself. A month or 2 if you really delve into it. But you want to start out beating the crap players. Don't buy into the sh*t that it's a lottery and takes no skill. If that were true, everyone on there would be winning. They aren't. Don't worry about making money, just worry about playing well. If you do that, the money will follow regardless of what longshot just beat you on the river.

Then, once you get WLLH, GSIH and start understanding SSHE more, try HEPFAP or Theory of Poker. Note that you won't understand everything in the books right away. It takes awhile to process as there is really quite a bit there. Which is one reason why many of us have read multiple beginner books along with other books. Some concepts click in one book while others click in other books. Different ways of expaining stuff. It also helps when you are actually in the situation and can see how it works in a real game. Experience is huge. Again, posting on the strategy forums is invaluable.

[ QUOTE ]
looks like from your number of posts you've been around for sometime.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been around awhile. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] But nowadays, postcount doesn't always mean much.

Have a good one!

b

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

good advice all around.

i somewhat concur with adapting SSHE tight chart. tighten it up alot and really watch position. in my limited recent experience with tight/aggressive, i kept getting run over post-flop and couldn't figure out if it was lousy flops or not. i just wasn't used to the aggression of my opponents or that i was supposed to be applying myself.

given that we are talking about adapting other books for very tight games, i'd have a look at harrington. his is no-limit but he is very, very tight and has great respect for 1) postion; 2) prior raise(s). exactly the kind of mindset you want. although you'd have to think thru no-limit vs. super-tight limit.

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

[ QUOTE ]
given that we are talking about adapting other books for very tight games, i'd have a look at harrington. his is no-limit but he is very, very tight and has great respect for 1) postion; 2) prior raise(s). exactly the kind of mindset you want. although you'd have to think thru no-limit vs. super-tight limit.


[/ QUOTE ]

However, be very careful when using a n/l tourney book and applying it to a limit ringgame. I'd actually forego anything but limit ringgame books at this point. Tourneys are a whole different animal. Just as is n/l.

b

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been around awhile. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] But nowadays, postcount doesn't always mean much.

Have a good one!

b

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so true. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

I have had similar concerns about what type of games the advice in SSHE applies to. I'm quite new to poker and I'm currently playing a lot at NobelPoker, usually 1-2$ limit. There, the 10-handed tables are quite tight (20-30% flop) so I find myself playing a lot at the six-handed tables (50-70% flop). Problem is that I'm doing quite miserably at these tables, even though I think I grasp and follow the concepts in SSHE. Usually, I find that the super-aggressive players win the most! Instead, I win when I enter the tight 10-handed tables. What can I be doing wrong at 6-h? Is the advice is SSHE so dependent on 10-h games? If so, how should I adjust my game (the advice in SSHE) to fit 6-h?

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have had similar concerns about what type of games the advice in SSHE applies to. I'm quite new to poker and I'm currently playing a lot at NobelPoker, usually 1-2$ limit. There, the 10-handed tables are quite tight (20-30% flop) so I find myself playing a lot at the six-handed tables (50-70% flop). Problem is that I'm doing quite miserably at these tables, even though I think I grasp and follow the concepts in SSHE. Usually, I find that the super-aggressive players win the most! Instead, I win when I enter the tight 10-handed tables. What can I be doing wrong at 6-h? Is the advice is SSHE so dependent on 10-h games? If so, how should I adjust my game (the advice in SSHE) to fit 6-h?

[/ QUOTE ]

SSHE isn't a book on shorthanded (6 handed) poker. It's for more of a full table.

b

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

You are here, there and everywhere asking basic question about poker ... what books have you actually read Zim ??

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

Hi Disco,
Short handed play requires a different style of play to win than a full game. You are right that a very aggressive style is what wins. I recommend checking out the short handed forums here if you plan on continuing 6 max.
Peace

Thanks Bernie!
 

Very much appreciated.

I'm making some ugly errors, misinterpreting some of the advice in SSH, so backing up a little, and relying on some old platitudes ("fit or fold" I still rather like) isn't such a sin, I figure.

I'll dust off my old copy of WLLH and catch up on some basic play.

Nonetheless, the game is going well after about 3000 hands now. Perhaps I should drop down a level, but as odd as this might sound ...

I play better at 2/4 than .5/1.00

I've encountered this before, and it's purely a psychological blip. When I'm only playing for a few dollars, I tend to not take the game seriously enough. Which is really bad poker (and it's all relative ... I'm certain 2/4 is considered a joke to many here), but I tend to do better when more money is at stake.

Of course, this implies some sort of emotional attachment to the money I'm wagering ... again, really bad. But I find it's more incentive to play correctly.

Regardless, thanks again for the advice.

All the best,
Zim

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

Hey Gel,

GSIH
WLLH
SSH (first reading ... lots to integrate)

Gave a bit of a history in the above post to Bernie, but I tend to ramble a bit ...

Cheers!
Zim

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Only thing is, that the preflop chart become a bit too loose, but if you adjust those, then you are on a roll

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the tight starting chart is already tighter than what HEFAP recommends for a really tough mid limit game. So you don't need to tighten up even further to be tighter than the field. When the field is too tight, atleast when that extends to postflop play as well, you want more, not less chances to steal.

Re: SSH and tight low limit games.
 

SSH is applicable to tight 2/4 games. The starting hand charts are not chisled in stone, as you gain experience they can be modified to fit the game you are playing in and your style of play.

That said, I found the tight game chart to work just fine in tight online low limit ring games.

Most of your profit will come from very good post flop play, and SSH does a very good job of pointing you in the right direction post flop.