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-   -   Early on Party Super Monday AQ hand (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=379032)

BreakfastBurrito 11-15-2005 04:22 PM

Early on Party Super Monday AQ hand
 
ok 10/20 blinds I have 900 chips and open to 75 with AQs from MP. CO cold calls and so does BB. Both have ~1250 chips.

Flop is Q93 rainbow. Check, I bet 175, both call.

Turn pairs the 9, full rainbow. Checked to me and I push.

What's the play here?

schwza 11-15-2005 04:42 PM

Re: Early on Party Super Monday AQ hand
 
looks like you have 750 in a pot of 750. just about the only possible draw is TJ, so i'm not very worried about a free card. i check. that way if the action goes CO bets, BB c/r's, you can get away. you are also more likely to squeeze a value bet out of TT/QJ on the end if you check here.

DDBeast 11-15-2005 04:59 PM

Re: Early on Party Super Monday AQ hand
 
[ QUOTE ]
looks like you have 750 in a pot of 750. just about the only possible draw is TJ, so i'm not very worried about a free card. i check. that way if the action goes CO bets, BB c/r's, you can get away. you are also more likely to squeeze a value bet out of TT/QJ on the end if you check here.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like it.

BreakfastBurrito 11-15-2005 06:02 PM

Re: Early on Party Super Monday AQ hand
 
I like this advice a lot. In actuality i think i had 675 left and a 760 chip pot. So I felt a little more pot commited and with two people in they were probably drawing to a combined 8-12 outs so I wanted to protect.

I'm assuming i would be calling a button push or checkraising all in if UTG folds? Also just calling a river if it's checked around on the turn and I'm bet into when anything KJT8 falls on river?

DeuceKicker 11-15-2005 06:15 PM

Re: Early on Party Super Monday AQ hand
 
why are you so eager to get all in with top pair?

schwza 11-15-2005 06:36 PM

Re: Early on Party Super Monday AQ hand
 
[ QUOTE ]
I like this advice a lot. In actuality i think i had 675 left and a 760 chip pot. So I felt a little more pot commited and with two people in they were probably drawing to a combined 8-12 outs so I wanted to protect.

I'm assuming i would be calling a button push or checkraising all in if UTG folds? Also just calling a river if it's checked around on the turn and I'm bet into when anything KJT8 falls on river?

[/ QUOTE ]

if 900 starting chips is right, you actually had 650 in a 760 pot. that does make pushing more appealing.

it's pretty unlikely they have that many outs. the board is Q939. if they have QJ and TT, it's 5. 35 and KQ, 5. the only way they're getting a lot of outs is if one has JT.

given that, i think i still like checking. also, i'm not so concerned with protecting a hand that may or may not be good.

i would call a button push (or c/r) if utg drops out. on a rag river, if it's checked around and utg bets a big amount, i fold. if he bets a small amount, i call. on a KJT8 river, i'll be a little bit more cautious. if it's checked to me on a rag, i bet 200 and fold to a push from CO but not from utg. if it's a KJT8, i check and call only a small bet from CO.

BreakfastBurrito 11-15-2005 06:51 PM

Re: Early on Party Super Monday AQ hand
 
I wasn't eager to get all in. With the situation though I see no way to bet again without being completely pot committed so I might as well push if I bet. Right?

BreakfastBurrito 11-15-2005 06:59 PM

Re: Early on Party Super Monday AQ hand
 
[ QUOTE ]
it's pretty unlikely they have that many outs. the board is Q939. if they have QJ and TT, it's 5. 35 and KQ, 5. the only way they're getting a lot of outs is if one has JT.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought KJ or KT might be likely hands for UTG. Both of those hands open up a lot more outs. It seems like he had too perfect of a chance to checkraise both of us on the flop in a big pot if he actually held a strong hand, so taking one off with an OESD or single overcard gutshot seemed a lot more likely. A weaker Q certainly isn't out of the question either though.

schwza 11-15-2005 07:08 PM

Re: Early on Party Super Monday AQ hand
 
utg would have to be really really bad to

-limp KJ utg
-call a raise
-overcall a flop bet with 4 outs and 3 more tainted ones

i think that as a default we should not think that level of bad-ness is likely.

ZeroPointMachine 11-15-2005 08:42 PM

Re: Early on Party Super Monday AQ hand
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it's pretty unlikely they have that many outs. the board is Q939. if they have QJ and TT, it's 5. 35 and KQ, 5. the only way they're getting a lot of outs is if one has JT.

[/ QUOTE ]



I thought KJ or KT might be likely hands for UTG. Both of those hands open up a lot more outs. It seems like he had too perfect of a chance to checkraise both of us on the flop in a big pot if he actually held a strong hand, so taking one off with an OESD or single overcard gutshot seemed a lot more likely. A weaker Q certainly isn't out of the question either though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was the BB this hand. The table was playing really weak tight and I had had some success picking up unwanted pots after the flop. I called with KQ diamonds pre-flop. TP2K is not exactly an exciting flop for me here. Your flop bet seemed a little big considering the pretty safe flop. I might have check-raised you(and folded to a push) if CO doesn't call. Not real happy with my overcall, but I felt there was enough of a chance that my hand was good against something like AK and TT to take one off and see what developed. When the board paired on the turn I was really confused by your push. The board is no more or less threatening than on the flop. I really couldn't see what you could be scared of. If the 9 helped someone you are dead and if it didn't your pushing everyone out of the pot. I really did not give you credit for AQ at this point and probably would have paid you off. Fortunately for me the CO called you first and saved me from that decision.(He had A9 of hearts I believe). I'm not sure which of the three of us played the hand the worst, but I don't think much was done right here.


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