Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

This is a hand from a PokerStars $35 6 handed sit and go.
Its down to two players and my opponent has me outchipped
about 2 to 1. He is an extremely aggressive player, with
a high ranking on all the Stars TLB (yearly, monthly, weekly)


__________________________________________________ ______
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (2 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero (t3139)
BB (t5861)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls t75, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t5861</font>

Putting aside the question of whether or not I should open push,
do you call or fold? Do you think it is close or clearcut?

Thanks,
Jonathan

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

Easy fold, and no you don't open-push with the blinds where they are.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

very easy fold

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

Why do you both think this is an easy fold?
What hands do you put him on?

For example, if opponent is pushing with 66, 55, 44, 33, 22,
A6, A5, A4, A3, A2, K6......etc. then its an easy call.

The open push, is very close. But if you assume that
opponent has loose calling standards, then SNGPT shows this
to be a marginal push.

I'm really surprised that both of you think this is such
an easy fold. Explain please.

Thanks,
Jonathan

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

Why would you want to get all your money in on the bad side of a coinflip? You still have plenty of chips to work around with if you fold.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
very easy fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

You have 21 BB. Why on earth are you considering calling here? I'm going to be passing unless the BB is 600 or something - I think it THEN becomes a marginal decision.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You have 21 BB. Why on earth are you considering calling here? I'm going to be passing unless the BB is 600 or something - I think it THEN becomes a marginal decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

it then becomes a push preflop. holla

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

Don't ruin my analysis please!

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

It's an easy fold unless you think a coin flip or much much worse for you against this player is actually +EV since he's just going to run you over otherwise.

I think the interesting thing is where you go from here with your pre-flop plays. What villain is doing IMO is trying to make sure you don't limp with marginal hands, so he can easily control you based on your pre-flop actions.

You cannot stop limping here with marginal hands then limp with a monster and expect to trap villain. Continue to mix it up by limping and raising with both marginal hands and hands you're willing to go the felt with (as well as raising with junk occassionally, but never limping).

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

Jbrochu has it right. Head's up is a game of cat and mouse. I would look for a spot to drop the hammer on this guy. Sometimes that spot never comes, in which case you eventually are pushing to take blinds or double up. Lot's of ways to win when head's up. Calling and hoping for a coin flip is not one of them that is going to get you consistent positive $EV results.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You have 21 BB. Why on earth are you considering calling here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Mabey because my equity in the hand is greater than
the odds the pot is offering?

Why don't you want to consider this possibility?
After the limp, I have 3064 behind and there is an
additional 300 in the pot, so the pot is offering me
1.1 to 1. Many hands that he might have, such as
55, 44, 33, 22 my equity exceeds that so its a clear cut
call.

It comes down to what range of hands you can put the
opponent on, but I don't see how you can just dismiss
a call out of hand without considering this question.

Suerte,
Jonathan

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

You are a 52:48 dog to a random hand, for crying out loud.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

seems like an easy fold. there isnt much deadweight in the pot. wait for another hand.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

vomit.

(sorry, i haven't seen citanul in awhile and I'm doing my best to fill in for him.)

so, vomit.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

The fact that you ask this question means that you seriously need to reevaluate your SNG game.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you want to consider this possibility?
After the limp, I have 3064 behind and there is an
additional 300 in the pot, so the pot is offering me
1.1 to 1. Many hands that he might have, such as
55, 44, 33, 22 my equity exceeds that so its a clear cut
call.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm, try assigning some other likely holdings for villain such as any two over cards or a PP bigger than your cards.

Mix it all up and I'm pretty sure 1.1-to-1 odds stink in this spot.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

Very very very very easy fold.

You are HU against someone playing 20 tables. At least try to exploit him.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are a 52:48 dog to a random hand, for crying out loud.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am? Where does this come from?

Suerte,
Jonathan

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are a 52:48 dog to a random hand, for crying out loud.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am? Where does this come from?

Suerte,
Jonathan

[/ QUOTE ]

It comes from the fact you have EIGHT HIGH.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that you ask this question means that you seriously need to reevaluate your SNG game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats exactly what I am trying to do. Thats why I am bringing
this up. Its clear that virtually everyone (except me) thinks
that this is an automatic fold. But so far, no one has actually
given a REASON, except for the gentleman who said the hand
is a 52:48 dog to a random hand. If thats true, then I agree
its a fold. But how do you determine that 87s is a 52:48
dog to a random hand?

Thanks for all the input....I appreciate it.

Suerte,
Jonathan

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
But how do you determine that 87s is a 52:48
dog to a random hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

www.pokerstove.com

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

I would want at least ten high to call my stack off HU.

With 20xbb you can find a better spot though.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But how do you determine that 87s is a 52:48
dog to a random hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

www.pokerstove.com

[/ QUOTE ]

If you need PokerStove to realize this is an awful call...yikes.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are a 52:48 dog to a random hand, for crying out loud.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am? Where does this come from?

Suerte,
Jonathan

[/ QUOTE ]

It comes from the fact you have EIGHT HIGH.

[/ QUOTE ]
OK...But what I meant was, is there some tool available that
you use to calculate that 87s is a 52:48 dog to a random
hand? What about JTs? What about 55? How do these compare
to a random hand.

For example, I've used Poker Stove to compare one specific
hand against another. But can you also use it, or some
similar tool, to compare 87s to a range of hands, rather than
just one hand?

That would help clarify things for me.

Thanks,
Jonathan

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

Did you know that if he's pushing 100% of hands, it's STILL a fold?

Calling here is retarded. Run the ICM to see why.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But how do you determine that 87s is a 52:48
dog to a random hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

www.pokerstove.com

[/ QUOTE ]

OK....I see you can input a range of hands for the second
player. Thanks for the useful info. So I see it is
fold.

In the actual hand, opponent had 55 in which case it was
a dead heat. I caught a 7 on the flop which held up,
and my opponent went ballistic berating me for a HORRIBLE
call.

I guess everyone here agrees with him [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Suerte,
Jonathan

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

Is Jonathan for real?

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is Jonathan for real?

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean, ucla? You think I'm pulling
the groups leg here?

Jonathan

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is Jonathan for real?

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean, ucla? You think I'm pulling
the groups leg here?

Jonathan

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you?

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is Jonathan for real?

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean, ucla? You think I'm pulling
the groups leg here?

Jonathan

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you?

[/ QUOTE ]

What would make you think that?

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is Jonathan for real?

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean, ucla? You think I'm pulling
the groups leg here?

Jonathan

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you?

[/ QUOTE ]

What would make you think that?

[/ QUOTE ]

I looked into your soul.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

if you raised t400 preflop it would still be a fold as you played it def a fold. I wouldn't ever CALL my stack off preflop w/ 8 high unless blind was a large proportion of my stack.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
if you raised t400 preflop it would still be a fold as you played it def a fold. I wouldn't ever CALL my stack off preflop w/ 8 high unless blind was a large proportion of my stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

But as raptor already pointed out, if the blinds were
much higher I would be moving in myself as first to act.

Suerte,
Jonathan

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is Jonathan for real?

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean, ucla? You think I'm pulling
the groups leg here?

Jonathan

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you?

[/ QUOTE ]

What would make you think that?

[/ QUOTE ]

I looked into your soul.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well bruin, I don't mind if you look into my soul
on the forum, but don't do it at the poker table!! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Suerte,
Jonathan

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

Yes, there're hand range calculators around. I'm afraid I don't have a URL here, but suffice to say 78s is -ev.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

Apparently some of you guys missed this.



[ QUOTE ]
Did you know that if he's pushing 100% of hands, it's STILL a fold?

Calling here is retarded. Run the ICM to see why.

[/ QUOTE ]



IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT RANGE OF HANDS HE'S PUSHING. CALLING IS -EV.

This thread should be locked, because I answered the question perfectly and any further discussion is pointless.

Re: Do you call heads up in this situation?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have 21 BB. Why on earth are you considering calling here? I'm going to be passing unless the BB is 600 or something - I think it THEN becomes a marginal decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

it then becomes a push preflop. holla

[/ QUOTE ]


You can't limp/call off for all your chips with suited connectors or low pairs. Push 'em if ya want - if ya get called you're still half-way alive and maybe a generally even money flip, but to flat-call BB and THEN flat-call AI is just awful poker.