atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

In reading the posts in this forum I cannot help but admire the quality of ideas and expressions of beliefs and non beliefs portrayed. So my question to atheists is what is your source of hope? In my adult life I have had two occasions in particular where I had to go to intensive care, on call, day in and day out, and if I would not have had a belief system I would never had made it. So when an atheist has an emergency, and sacrifices have to be made for the good of another, day in and day out, making your own future uncertain, where do you find hope, solace and joy, if you do not believe in a higher power? Thank you for taking the time to read and or answer my post.

respectfully submitted.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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So when an atheist has an emergency, and sacrifices have to be made for the good of another, day in and day out, making your own future uncertain, where do you find hope, solace and joy, if you do not believe in a higher power?

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I find hope in people -- as hard as it is at times. I generally like people. They make me happy (not always, but moreso than not). I treat people how I think they want to be treated -- as I would like that in return. Mutually cooperating brings happiness. To those that I'm very close to, I would make almost any sacrifice, because they mean so much to me -- if I didn't, I would be unhappy knowing that there was something I could have done to save/help them, but didn't do it. It's not altruism, it's compassion (literally, "suffering with another"; when they hurt, I hurt; when they are happy, I am happy).

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

[ QUOTE ]
In reading the posts in this forum I cannot help but admire the quality of ideas and expressions of beliefs and non beliefs portrayed. So my question to atheists is what is your source of hope? In my adult life I have had two occasions in particular where I had to go to intensive care, on call, day in and day out, and if I would not have had a belief system I would never had made it. So when an atheist has an emergency, and sacrifices have to be made for the good of another, day in and day out, making your own future uncertain, where do you find hope, solace and joy, if you do not believe in a higher power? Thank you for taking the time to read and or answer my post.

respectfully submitted.

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I am an atheist and I know I experience all the emotions you mention. As to "hope", I just hope! I just don't hope that some God or other will chose to help me (or others) out!

I've believe the emotions are common to humanity because we are humans. Some may believe the emotions derive from
some personal aquaintance from God, and maybe some specific ones do, but a belief in God is not where hope, happiness etc derive, IMO. We `atheists are feeling beings,too! Honest!

(Interesting post, by the way)

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

I find hope in the amazing complexity of the universe. I find hope that energy has been arranged to provide us with such an amazing array of experiences. I find hope in life.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

Hope does not require a belief in god or a source other than your own desires. Hope means you simply wish for something to happen. I was near death and never needed any higher power hope. I just wished for the best. Yours is the classic reason for god - the weak need a crutch that the strong don't.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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I find hope in the amazing complexity of the universe. I find hope that energy has been arranged to provide us with such an amazing array of experiences. I find hope in life.

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[thread hijack]Yet, despite recognizing the amazing complexity of the universe and existence of life along with the fact that the universe has the ability to support life, atheists refuse to acknowledge that such was created by a supreme being.[/thread hijack]

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

Life is an amazing experience and I wish to continue living. I don't see why I'd need a better reason.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

That I make a positive difference through having lived.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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In my adult life I have had two occasions in particular where I had to go to intensive care, on call, day in and day out, and if I would not have had a belief system I would never had made it. So when an atheist has an emergency, and sacrifices have to be made for the good of another, day in and day out, making your own future uncertain, where do you find hope, solace and joy, if you do not believe in a higher power?

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I've been rereading these comments, trying to put the 2 halves of the reasoning together. It seems the OP believes in a god that can intervene?? Yet, if that was the case, and I find myself in dire straits, I'd be less hopeful than somebody who just figures they had bad luck, because it sure looks like this intervener has some plans for me I'm not too crazy about.

Setting that aspect aside, since it isn't helpful in any case, "hope, solace and joy" would be emotions I would experience in relation to things occuring to people I care about ( which doesn't exclude too many people).

A young guy straightening out his life seems hopeful situation to me ( it could even be me). In a bad situation, I find solace in the caring relationships I have, in various ways. In fortuitous times, I am joyful for the good fortune of loved ones.

There seems no spot where an intervening god whose "ways we can't understand " would be any comfort at all, sounds more like confusion than comfort.

I've been in some hairy situations - a burning small boat on the ocean that had insufficient lifeboats... we loaded the women and children in the only one there and shoved them away ( I knew none of the women or children). A wilderness situation that ended in a desparate flagging down of a small float plane for a rescue. ( those are the 'unusual' ones). Never even had a twitch of "somebody up there help me" and neither did any other atheists ( it was usually a mix of both types) that were involved in any of them.

It's in tough times that the person you are comes out, and somebody who holds people as the center of importance in life still does that in whatever circumstance they end up in.

hope that's helpful :-)
but I really think I missed the point of the OP,

luckyme,
If I thought I was wrong, my mind would have changed.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

Reaching my goals, I have lots of personal goals that I would like to reach.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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luckyme,
If I thought I was wrong, my mind would have changed.

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I notice your tagline changed... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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There seems no spot where an intervening god whose "ways we can't understand " would be any comfort at all, sounds more like confusion than comfort.

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I agree and I even think there is an upside to being an atheist in despairing situations. You learn to become stronger and less reliant on some unseen force. It teaches you to look into yourself to find the strength that was already there. Looking outward to god is only comforting in the sense that a child is comforted when told that grandpa isn't dead but sleeping (and he is really dead). If the child goes through life believing that he will feel better but he won't truly overcome his fear.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

The hardest thing for me is hearing about all of the troubles in the world that would not neccessarily exist if there were no religion. I do acknowledge that many problems would still exist and new problems would arise, but I still think the world would be a better place.

I suppose that if I were ever seriousely unhappy for a very long time I would consider suicide because there's not much reason not to, but although many people's thoughts of atheists are that they have nothing to live for... i find it very hard not to be happy being an atheist. It's true that nothing will really matter when we die, but we still enjoy doing whatever it is we do and most still find joy in helping others. And most serious atheists (those that aren't just people mad at god that their lives suck) are very interested in Science, Math, and Philosophy (which is why we're all in this forum) and I can't imagine anything else that could intrigue a person more and keep their spirits up.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

Great post.

I second that; Christians should know that the majority of atheists are generally happy people.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

I am not happy with these replies. They imply that atheists need to find some other source of hope to become atheists. Atheists should believe what they do soley because of science and logic. If that means no 'hope" so be it. Lemurs do perfectly well without it.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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I am not happy with these replies. They imply that atheists need to find some other source of hope to become atheists. Atheists should believe what they do soley because of science and logic. If that means no 'hope" so be it. Lemurs do perfectly well without it.

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I think you are right in part and wrong in part.

I think while people don't need another source of hope to be an atheist, it's very difficult to sustain a position that is wrot with gloom and pessimism. While many of us would like to believe that our decisions are entirely based upon science and logic, especially those of us who play poker on a regular basis know that they are almost always intertwined.

A significant reason that I've always found religion difficult to stomach is exactly this; people long for hope, comfort, and a sense of belonging. They will very frequently ignore all science and logic in search for these things.

Thus, it takes a particularly stubborn, strong-willed person to rely solely upon their logical convictions to remain an atheist. Without some alternative source of hope, it is a difficult lifestyle to maintain.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am not happy with these replies. They imply that atheists need to find some other source of hope to become atheists. Atheists should believe what they do soley because of science and logic. If that means no 'hope" so be it. Lemurs do perfectly well without it.

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What a downer! We already know that we would be atheists even in the absence of hope because it's the truth according to us. But are you going to tell me that you have nothing that keeps you going??? Perhaps these forums are even a small part of the reason that you don't just throw in the towel. Atheists have plenty of enjoyment and less things that make them unhappy; sounds like a sweet deal to me.

So tell everyone in here how much you love throwing in your little bits of discussion and enjoy being a part of this forum and get it over with [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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They imply that atheists need to find some other source of hope to become atheists.

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Perhaps that's what was meant. I wasn't sure since the ' source of hope ' is the same for everyone ( it's an internal emotion) so I read it in the sense of "which outside agencies give you reason to have some hope" in a difficult situation. Other people that will aid the situation ( friends, family, humanity in general) and personal strengths. I gave some examples of reasons for hope from my personal experience.

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Atheists should believe what they do soley because of science and logic.

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Nah, This is a milder version of 'prove there is no god'. It doesn't take a logical, scientific person to not buy some farfetched story, just a bit of healthy skepticism, no more than for swampland deals. You don't need a reason to NOT believe in one specific supernatural claim, otherwise you'll have mythsellers lined up at your door. You need a reason TO believe. Believing a specific myth isn't anyones default.

luckyme,
If I don't believe I'm right, my mind will change.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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I second that; Christians should know that the majority of atheists are generally happy people.

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word to happy atheists [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

I do not see the relationship between religious belief or lack of, and hope that you seem to believe exist. You are asking a question that does not exist.

Hope is an emotion; and like all emotions it’s a devise the mind use to indirectly control our conscience behaviour. It motivates us to keep trying to achieve some goal, where we might otherwise give up. Hope needs to be attached to a goal to function correctly, the exact details varying depending on circumstance.

Hope is a tool the mind uses, it will continue to use hope to motivate us irrespective of the situation we are in. The goals might be different but the mechanism is the same.

Lack of hope is an indication of brain damage, not lack of religious belief.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

I don't think these replies necessarily imply that. Hope is an emotion that can come after becoming an atheist. It doesn't invalidate the position. These posters are just answering the question as humans who live with the position of atheism. We cannot separate our lives from our philosophical position; well, we can but if we did it would imply a lack of faith in that position.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

My source of hope is that one day I might meet Britney Spears.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

I'm sorry, could you please repeat the question? I was distracted by the most amazing avatar I've ever seen in my life.

Oh right, hope. For me, knowing there is no higher power only inspires me to do as much good as I can and leave a good solid impact on the world. If I am about to die in the ER, well, I guess I just have to say nice hand and be done with it.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

When you understand the fundamental absurdity of existence, you understand that hope does not require an external source. You hope, or you don't.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

"Thus, it takes a particularly stubborn, strong-willed person to rely solely upon their logical convictions to remain an atheist. Without some alternative source of hope, it is a difficult lifestyle to maintain."

Atheism is not a lIFESTYLE. Do people who think that Micky Mantle couldn't do differential equations, live a certain lifestyle?

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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Atheism is not a lIFESTYLE. Do people who think that Micky Mantle couldn't do differential equations, live a certain lifestyle?

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I am sitting here cracking up laughing. Not at this quote, the idea, nor David. It is just that, who (else) would even think of such an analogy? One of the reasons I frequent this forum: never a dull moment.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

Atheism is not wrot with gloom and pessimism. Why do you feel this must be so?

I also feel people need hope, comfort, and a sense of belonging. I seek those things, just not in religion. I hope I will be able to contribute something good and meaningful to the world before I die, since after I die, well--that's pretty much it. That is my hope.

Atheism is not a lifestyle, it is a "belief" based on sound thinking and available information.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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Atheism is not wrot with gloom and pessimism. Why do you feel this must be so?

I also feel people need hope, comfort, and a sense of belonging. I seek those things, just not in religion. I hope I will be able to contribute something good and meaningful to the world before I die, since after I die, well--that's pretty much it. That is my hope.

Atheism is not a lifestyle, it is a "belief" based on sound thinking and available information.

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And, I might add that a world "without god" is what we've bneen in anyway, but just hadn't thought clearly enough about before - the "world" is unchanged; only the explanations are different.

As an atheist, I believe that humanity is a species amonst species that has evolved on earth; that the species will become, as all do, extinct at some future point in time. As individuals, and as a species, our "existence" is contingent....

However, I also regard "hope" as a human emotion, and recommend that the proper way to view it is, as with any human emotions, within a human context - that is, within a human timeframe. I suspect that those who view "atheism" as "hopeless" are specifically thinking in terms of "eternity". And, I agree, atheism offers nothing in such terms or timeframes. However, there is a possibility for "hope" within one's own life, community, and historical context - whether hope is, or isn't justified within any of those contexts is subject to the same calculations and/or considerations for each of us, regardless of religious affiliation....

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

[ QUOTE ]
In reading the posts in this forum I cannot help but admire the quality of ideas and expressions of beliefs and non beliefs portrayed. So my question to atheists is what is your source of hope? In my adult life I have had two occasions in particular where I had to go to intensive care, on call, day in and day out, and if I would not have had a belief system I would never had made it. So when an atheist has an emergency, and sacrifices have to be made for the good of another, day in and day out, making your own future uncertain, where do you find hope, solace and joy, if you do not believe in a higher power? Thank you for taking the time to read and or answer my post.

respectfully submitted.

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My source of hope is that one day people will realize they don't need a being in the clouds in order to have hope.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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Atheism is not a lifestyle, it is a "belief" based on sound thinking and available information.

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We would hope that... but often it's based on non-thinking.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

Life is a self-contained circumstance. What occurs after it is over is irrelevant. The concept you call "hope" is an illusion. Pure artifice. My feeling is that because you feel you need hope for life after death, you are missing out on the true joy of life.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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What occurs after [life] is over is irrelevant. The concept you call "hope" is an illusion.

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I would disagree. We attempt to affect the world in such a way that after we die we know that our influence has and will continue to change the world. After we die, those that know us and what we fought for in life will be negatively affected if our cause is not followed or has no impact. I suppose if I had no aspirations and lead a meaningless life then you would be correct. And my hope of leaving the world in a better state than I found it is not an illusion. I will work towards that end, and I hope I will see results which will lead me to believe with a high degree of certainty that after I am dead, my contributions will not have been in vain and useless.

But in another sense, yeah, you're right, 10,000 years from now I will probably not be remembered nor will anything I have done really matter, unless I really do a number like Jesus or Newton or something like that, but I'm looking for that kind of impact. (And by the way, I do think Jesus impacted the world more, but I think Newton's impact proved to be more useful.)

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

Easy.

"Hmm, this intensive care stuff is lame. But life in general kinda kicks ass. I'd like to keep living."

Also, a counter question: If it were somehow proved beyond any doubt that no God exists...would you lose all hope? Would live no longer be worth living?

Will

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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Easy.

"Hmm, this intensive care stuff is lame. But life in general kinda kicks ass. I'd like to keep living."

Also, a counter question: If it were somehow proved beyond any doubt that no God exists...would you lose all hope? Would live no longer be worth living?

Will

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To me, in general life doesn't kick ass at all! Only knowing that it is finite keeps me going. I mean I can put up with existence for a while, but surely not for eternity. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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Easy.

"Hmm, this intensive care stuff is lame. But life in general kinda kicks ass. I'd like to keep living."

Also, a counter question: If it were somehow proved beyond any doubt that no God exists...would you lose all hope? Would live no longer be worth living?

Will

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To me, in general life doesn't kick ass at all! Only knowing that it is finite keeps me going. I mean I can put up with existence for a while, but surely not for eternity. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I had a can of Fosters once, I know exactly what you mean.

Mack

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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So my question to atheists is what is your source of hope? ... So when an atheist has an emergency, and sacrifices have to be made for the good of another, day in and day out, making your own future uncertain, where do you find hope, solace and joy, if you do not believe in a higher power?

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Belief seems to truly empower the faithful; in difficult times the strength of one's convictions may bring hope, solace, and joy. As an atheist, i can draw the same from my freinds and family; the people i love, my faith in them and in myself.

I do not see a need for a higher power to justify my existence or to give me a reason to live and struggle and suffer, to continue.

so:

my question for the faithful would be: Is a belief in a higher power needed for you to experiece hope? does the existance of that power give you hope, or is your hope for your god's existance?

either way you are not truly free... and there is a lot of hope, solace, and joy in freedom.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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I had a can of Fosters once, I know exactly what you mean.

Mack

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Bro, how well put. I am a fair dinkum ozzie. I even have a non-ocker accent to prove it (most ozzies have non-ocker accents nowadays.... very multi-cultural we are.. a bit like the US 100 years ago, a bercail of civilisation revival). I tell you what, I came originally from a country famous for its beer and I nearly gave up on arriving to Australia. That's a few decades ago. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Fosters and the other few beers available were really a shocker. Any way it is improving.. many boutiques and interesting beer available here now. we still manage to really big sell the Fosters to the rest of the world [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I am more of a wine drinker, bro. Where every mouthful of every glass of every bottle of every type is different (as it get oxigenated). Semms craftier to me too. And you never know, gives me hope of sort. I mean the next mouthful may even be better.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

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I am more of a wine drinker, bro.

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Now that's something I think both Australia and the US do well.

Mack

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

I don't disagree with you. My feeling was that the OP was about hope for an afterlife.

Though a Zen master might say the true path to happiness is to have precisely zero aspirations.

Re: atheists-- what is your source of hope?
 

Alex Chiu's Eternal Life Device